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Tarot & the Zodiac

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.



Kira  03 Jan 2003 
I know this question has to do with astrology, but since it's about the tarot also, I thought I might as well try posing here. :P

Again, I'm a newbie to all this, so any help is hugely appreciated.

I know the Court cards have relations to the zodiac, but do the other cards as well? I just tried out a relationship spread I found, and it said the second card in the spread represented what sign the person will be.

The card dealt was the 9 of Cups. Is there a sign to go with this card?

Oh, and one more question before I forget... Does it mean anything when your spread has all the same minor? (All cups/wands/swords/pentacles) Or does it just mean that it wasn't shuffled enough. LOL

Thanks!

~Kira 


allibee  03 Jan 2003 
Hi Kira, nice to meet you.

As far as astrological correspondances to minors go, I only know of ones that relate to the Court Cards, but no doubt someone somewhere has given correspondances for the ones through to tens.

On the question of all the same suit, that is a very telling feature of a reading. All, or even mostly, one suit speaks very strongly of:
Cups - emotions, Wands - creativity, Coins - material aspects, Swords - thought aspects.

Say for example you were doing a relationship reading for a pair of lovers and one side of the reading came up all, or nearly all swords, you could quite easily question whether that person was more of an intellectual lover. They were more into thinking about the relationship than physically participating in it.
If it came up more as coins you could wonder whether the motivation and viewpoint was financial or material.

That of course is all in relation to the question, the spread and all the other cards in the throw, but it is a very strong point to consider if this comes up.

allibee
BTW, James Hetfield IS God, LOL 


warabi  03 Jan 2003 
The minor arcana has zodiac signs as well. Note that its been a while since I looked at zodiac relationships in the cards so I could be wrong, but I believe the nine of cups is a Pisces card.

As for the shuffling, it depends. If you shuffled the cards before hand and you just happened to get all of the same suit, just take it as it is. But if you got all the cards in numerical order I would probably wonder ^_^. As for the meaning of getting multiple cards of the same suit, it really depends on what you believe. Some dismiss it, others believe that the spread is ruled by a particular element, etc. Just listen to what others think about this, or think about it for yourself, and choose what you think is right for you 


Thirteen  03 Jan 2003 
Zodiac among the Majors MORE generally agreed on than the minors--but the thing about Zodiac designations is that there's a lot of disagreement. Here's what we can pretty much tell you:

1) Court Cards--depends on which deck you use. Each deck (and deck creator) will give the court cards a Zodiac designation. But all will generally follow this rule:

Cups = Water signs
Wands = Fire signs/Air signs
Swords = Air signs/Fire signs
Pentacles = Earth signs

So, depending on the deck, the Queen of Cups might be Scorpio or Cancer, the King of Pentacles, Capricorn or Virgo. Sometimes the decks will maintain a certain consistency, like Queens are all fixed signs (Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius), Kings Cardinal, Knights mutable.

You can do one of two things--decide for yourself what sign the Queen of Cups is and use that for every deck, or change according to what the deck assignments are (usually there's a clue on the card, like the Queen of Cups will have a pair of fishes on her throne, and so is Pisces).

2) Minors--These cards are assigned things like "Sun in Aries" or "Moon in Venus" To check out what's what, I recommend checking out a book on the Thoth deck or the Mandela deck, both of which emphasizes zodiac signs and planets, etc. 


lunalafey  03 Jan 2003 
A water sign, which one? what are the other cards?
in Tarot for Yourself by mary Greer, she associates the 9 of cups to Jupiter in Picses.
I know the 9 of Cups as wish fullfilled. perhps this means that the one is the one you have had your eye on...if there is one. 


Thirteen  04 Jan 2003 
Jupiter in Pisces makes a lot of sense. Jupiter is expansive and representational of great luck, of vision and success. The Wheel of Fortune is, after all, represented by Jupiter. Pisces is a card of dreams, wishes, of mystical insight and psyhic powers. So the combo of the two would, indeed, indicate your dearest wish coming true. The interesting thing is, given that it's pisces, the sign of self-sacrifice, it's likely an unselfish dream, which also fits, very nicely, the 9/Cups. 


allibee  04 Jan 2003 
(
Quote:
Originally posted by Thirteen
Pisces is a card of dreams, wishes, of mystical insight and psychic powers.


Yay .... slight digression alert .... I've been looking for a concise description of Pisces which is my Moon, Thanks thirteen :) ) 


Macavity  04 Jan 2003 
Since I had a "little help from my friends" (HERE) on this question, here's a data table I was using this afternoon to create a table of the correspondances for the Thoth Deck and... e.g. the Nine of Cups is indeed (thankfully) "Jupiter in Pisces"! Woohoo :) The Zodiac is divided into 36 (lines of) Decan (The first number) and you should be able to figure out my other abbreviations? If you look at the structure, it just depends on repetition of nine, seven and three - Geddit? :D

P.S. This is the Golden Dawn Scheme... and may (I suspect?) even differ from "classical" astrology assignments? As the inimitable Mr Crowley says: "The reason for this is that in the realm of the Elements all things are mixed and confused" (sic) So THAT's alright then! ;)

P.P.S. For (some) self-consistency, I was also looking again at (also cited here before) http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/387/ as I was finding this useful to (try to) inject a little more GD science into my significator selection. Fwiw this (fantastic) page also gives you a date correspondance of the Decans... some way down.

Code:

01 Ari Mar  2-Wan
02 Ari Sun  3-Wan
03 Ari Ven  4-Wan
04 Tau Mer  5-Pen
05 Tau Moo  6-Pen
06 Tau Sat  7-Pen
07 Gem Jup  8-Swo
08 Gem Mar  9-Swo
09 Gem Sun 10-Swo
10 Can Ven  2-Cup
11 Can Mer  3-Cup
12 Can Moo  4-Cup
13 Leo Sat  5-Wan
14 Leo Jup  6-Wan
15 Leo Mar  7-Wan
16 Vir Sun  8-Pen
17 Vir Ven  9-Pen
18 Vir Mer 10-Pen
19 Lib Moo  2-Swo
20 Lib Sat  3-Swo
21 Lib Jup  4-Swo
22 Sco Mar  5-Cup
23 Sco Sun  6-Cup
24 Sco Ven  7-Cup
25 Sag Mer  8-Wan
26 Sag Moo  9-Wan
27 Sag Sat 10-Wan
28 Cap Jup  2-Pen
29 Cap Mar  3-Pen
30 Cap Sun  4-Pen
31 Aqu Ven  5-Swo
32 Aqu Mer  6-Swo
33 Aqu Moo  7-Swo
34 Pis Sat  8-Cup
35 Pis Jup  9-Cup
36 Pis Mar 10-Cup
 


samantha  04 Jan 2003 
Thanks for this information Macavity ! Its amazing (or maybe its not amazing ?!) the number of syncrinicities that this forum has presented to me ! I kept on getting the 4 cups in readings , felt it to be important. My birth sign is Cancer, with the moon in Cancer.....yes , amazing. 


Macavity  04 Jan 2003 
Actually I lied about the date correspondance bit - Ooops! The site is interesting though :) However, the following site does give some date correspondance info, which you could merge in to a homebrew table: http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/attrib.htm Of course I have (little) idea what the actual astro correspondances mean though! I'll leave that to the others... ;) 


Thirteen  04 Jan 2003 
Quote:
Originally posted by allibee
(

Yay .... slight digression alert .... I've been looking for a concise description of Pisces which is my Moon, Thanks thirteen :) )


Um, well, it's also a sign of addiction, drug abuse, hallucinatons and insanity ;)

As the moon sign indicates what things or atmosphere give you comfort--or what you retreat into when uncomfortable (or so an Astrological expert once told me)--this would mean that you sometimes need to resist daydreaming or indulging in daydream substances when unhappy.

And it means also, in the positive, that tarot cards (and other psychic activities at which you're very good) likely make you very comfortable and happy. 


samantha  05 Jan 2003 
Macavity !!!!!! I'm getting lost here , are the dates really wrong ??!! Or do you say this tongue in cheek ?! 


Macavity  05 Jan 2003 
Ah, this was an attempt at humour. I should probably stop reading the collected works of Aleister Crowley on such things. It's obviously having an effect! ;)

BUT I was referring to the fact that the complex Llewellyn article on court cards though LAUDABLE in every other way was perhaps not ideal as a reference for the all 36 Decan dates. For the 16 Court cards there are really only 12 with zodiacal attributes, so that doesn't give enough dates for the table. The practical point! :) The other main problem is the article discusses the different conventions in naming of court cards, which can be VERY difficult/confusing for most people and might usefully be avoided at an early stage...

Returning to the MINORS: Since there are 36 of them: 4*(2 thru 10) of each suite, you need 36 pairs of dates to define astrological periods. The Paul Hughes-Barlow site does indeed give 36 pairs. But PHB's site does use a colour scheme to refer to suits/elements. I have found his site very useful for technicalities of the "Thoth" and GD methods. But I have e.g. remembered: red=wands, yellow=swords, blue=cups and green=pentacles! Perhaps since I spend so much time interpreting this stuff for MY purposes I should have a web page too? But there's a danger that I might add to the confusion too! LOL :D

Anyway, Fwiw PHB's dates are of course "right". I suppose you may get some minor departures in different conventions? ISTR some people who are RIGHT on the astrological "cusp" have problems with that one? But then you'd likely have to ask a REAL astrologer on that one...

Mac 


samantha  05 Jan 2003 
Macavity:
Yes , er ,ok .....I think I got that last bit ! ( keeps chanting "There are 36 of them , there are 36 of them....") I can see that I will have to do some serious study on this one. Thanks for taking the time to explain ! And who was Crowley again .....?

LOL Gridlebone. 


Macavity  05 Jan 2003 
Oooops, Not implying... My bad - Blame years (sic) of describing things computerish to "academic" types. :D ISTR "Mr Crowley" was a track by the ever inspirational Ozzy Osborne... somewhere in prehistory. Heheh.

Aspara(Gus) 


Small-tree  07 Jan 2003 
anyone out htere who knows of any book which can tell me what the astrological correspondances of the minors are? Are all the minors linked to an astrological zodiac or just some? 


The Tarot & the Zodiac thread was originally posted on 03 Jan 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

 
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