The Magician

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

imagoddess	01 Jan 2003
Is the Magician a trickster? What are the Magician's intentions?

temperlyne	01 Jan 2003
To me he is a creater. He can manipulate reality and therfor would be able to trick you but I do not believe that that is his intention. He represents creative energy and inspiration, the ability to put thoughts into matter.

Ophiel	01 Jan 2003
The Magician is usually associated with intent and concentration, ruled by Mercury (the mind, the intellect) and more often the Fool is associated with trickery. Gotta love it, the tricks, I mean. Tricks aren't just for kids.

samantha	01 Jan 2003
I must admit that I have a soft spot for the Magician . His appearances are always somewhat unexpected......like the friend who never turns up when you THINK you need him , but actually turns up when their is a real crisis. (Perhaps then he is unpredictable rather than untrustworthy.) I really feel that he has your best interests at heart , but like I say , you may not always be aware of them yourself !! He is a guide , he is definately MY guide !! But being a man with his own agenda is not on call 24 hrs a day !

tarotbear	01 Jan 2003
Since the Magician is one of my Life cards, I would have to say 'trickster?'- no. He can create his own reality, and therefore can create an illusion or two if necessary, but since he has the power to create he has no need to deceive others or himself. Remember - the Magician's power comes to him from a higher source; he knows he is merely the channel for that power- not the source of that power.

Thirteen	01 Jan 2003
All cards have positive and negative attributes, yin and yang--or, if you will, two masks, dark and light. The Magician most usually indicates, as pointed out, creation, what you can make of things, the ability to transform--and, as with Mercury, medicine, science, the manipulation of words, talking, writing. But remember that Mercury (Hermes) was known to have stolen the cattle of the Sun. He's a thief, a trickster. Every pantheon has a trickster god--they're very good at talking their way in and out of just about anything (think Bugs Bunny)--good with slight of hand, and instead of being a real healer, they're snake oil salesmen. These are the two sides of the Magician--sometimes a real magician, sometimes just a sage magician doing very good tricks. Though trickster sounds bad, I can think of quite a few situations where I'd want a trickster on my side to talk me out of bad situations, use slight of hand to get eyes off me, make me look like I'm doing better than I am. The Trickster face of the Magician is one you want to watch out for as if you meet him, he might sell you snake oil, trick you into thinking he's sincere. But he is a character that YOU can usually make good use of YOU are the one in trouble. Remember, the real magic of a stage magician, of his tricks, is making them, and himself, look real.

Webfoot	01 Jan 2003
Just saw an excellent example of the Magician/Trickster in the movie, Catch Me If You Can. It’s about a wildly successful teen-age con man, based on a true story. This character also has, I think, something of the Fool about him—something endearing and innocent. Gareth Knight wrote somewhere that the Fool could be seen as the inner side of the Magician, the magical child within. Maybe that’s why I’ve always liked the Trickster/Hermes image, it’s that nervy little kid inside.

amyel	01 Jan 2003
The Magician reminds me of the Raven in traditional North American mythology, particularly when he appears in those myths of the NortWest Coast. there are many, many myths about Raven: as the creator of man; as the bringer of light to the world; or as the one who "forces" the sun & moon to chase each other, etc. But in almost all cases, he is known as the trickster. His stories abound with him trying to do something selfish, which end up benefitting all, and then he gladly takes credit for it. He uses and/or controls the forces of all the elements to get what he wants - but it never quite ends up the way he thinks it will. I always figured if I ever drew my own cards, the Raven would be the Magician.

Umbrae	01 Jan 2003
Personal Opinion alert I see The Fool as the trickster, Coyote - Raven - Eshu - Krishna - Hermes. The Magician, as the mortal emulator-male. The Popess or the High Priestess as the female emulator.

Musie	02 Jan 2003
This is the lesson card for me this month *g* I'm learning it is the power of creation. As above so below. Balance of power - inner and outer. We all have the power to create, make something manifest in our lives. We have choices how to use that power - good or bad. We have the power to change ourselves if we need. Though sometimes, we don't change, which creates obstacles for us and we can become stagnate in our growth processes. This was a hard card for me to interpret for the longest time until recently. But if you think of what a magician is ... he has all the tools at his disposal to create magic. Real magic is not an allusion though, it comes from within. Everything you do has an effect - a rippling effect like through the cosmic web of life. Inner power, outer power, choices, power to create change. Power to make our dreams, aspirations a reality.

JC	03 Jan 2003
I can't remember the link, but I did a search for "tarocchi" on Google, and I found an article that points out the Mantegna Tarrocchi's equivalent of the Magician is the Artisan. This explains alot to me, especially why I always liked that card. To me, the Magician really is an artist, while the Fool is inspiration.

amyel	03 Jan 2003
Umbrae & JC, I really like your opinions and observations about the Magician. Perhaps it is the use of the word "trickster" that has me equate major 1 with the Raven, Umbrae. And JC, the link to the magaician as artist is very potent. In both cases, it seems as if the magician is being equated to a creator (reference once again to the Raven as creator), as an artist would be. I find the Magician one of the most elusive of characters. Is this card male? Female? "The Creator" - and if so, in what sense? Questions, questions....

allibee	03 Jan 2003
The Magician 'creates' whatever he wants to, in short. He has studied and practiced and he has all the elements at his command. If you think of the Fool as someone who walks on the railway tracks, you could think of the Magician as someone who knows what time the train is coming through. He is a go getter, and because he knows what he is doing, he gets what he goes after. Now, he may chose manipulation as his method, and that's because he can. He knows what buttons to press. He may chose to blind you with science, that's also because 'he can'. Know thyself, as the old dictum at Delphi maintains. Well the Magician knows not only himself, but you too, I often think he knows more about you than you yourself do! He knows how to 'make things happen. He brings ideas into reality. As above, so below. I do see this card as a practical, logical masculine ego, however as it can APPLY to a male or female, or be aspects of yourself, it doesn't really matter IMHO. It's an old 'sexist' thing really as most Magicians were usually men. I suppose we should just be grateful that the fool is a guy too *LOL* allibee p.s. yes. I can totally see the Magician as an artisan, using his mind and manipulating his tools deftly/adroitly to create??? A Basket? A Painting? An Ice sculpture? A bicycle? A stained glass window? Yes, that's a very good one, I'll add it to my journal:)

dangerdork	03 Jan 2003
I agree with Allibee for the standard definition, but I also think it's useful to look at the Magician / High Priestess and Emperor / Empress as yin/yang pairs of sexual role models. The Emperor and Empress are obviously the paired-off, married, consummated couple, they have fulfilled their reproductive potential. Thus the nurturance, confidence, etc. Fill in your own blanks. But the Magician and the High Priestess are the UNcoupled, SINGLE, male and female animal. The female carries the secrets of life and procreation within her, and the power of choice rests with her. The MALE animal, irresistably drawn to this power of the female animal, must prove his worthiness as a partner - thus the male competitive urge and male ego. The peacocks strut their plumage, males often fight, and sometimes to the death... and the Magician does all his chanting and gesturing, manipulating the world and making things happen, building, destroying, creating... all to prove his worthiness to spawn more like himself. To impress her. SO... What are his intentions? Can you trust him? Ask any woman.

Keslynn	03 Jan 2003
Wow, dangerdork, I really like that analysis. We had two peacocks on my parents' farm. One was inside a fence and the other roamed free. Every evening in the summer (when their plumage was at its best), they would spread their tails and display for each other to compete over the women. What a sight! Gorgeous yet somehow ridiculous because it was essentially a "pissing contest." I guess that would be Magician energy gone overboard. :) Kes

dangerdork	03 Jan 2003
Impressive and ridiculous at the same time, huh Kes. I like that... But gone overboard? Granted, men do a lot of stupid and destructive "macho" things in these pissing contests... but I also think that there's a HUGE connection between creativity and testosterone... that masculine creative urge alluded to earlier that the Magician can symbolize. As an artist, I've noticed in hindsight that some of the best work I've ever done has been inspired in part by trying to impress some woman. I have real people in my life who are personal Muses, and when that masculine/feminine energy is channeled into creative endeaavors, wonderful things can happen. Is Beethoven's 5th or the Mona Lisa going overboard? Those magicians had THEIR Muses -- there's more to creation than procreation.

Centaur	03 Jan 2003
I see the magician as offering the seeker opportunity and many paths to follow. The magician is personalised in terms of the surrounding cards. If he is surrounding by The Sun and The World, I would say there is nothing of the trickster around him, but say he was surrounded by The Tower and the Seven of Swords (I think!), I would say that he is very much the trickster. It all depends I suppose! Hehehe. Centaur

Webfoot	03 Jan 2003
Umbrae: So you see the Fool as a god--the Trickster--and the Magician and the High Priestess as embodying those qualities when the Fool comes down off the mountain so to speak? Or am I not understanding it right. I like the image of the Fool as the instigator of the whole Tarot journey and the idea of the High Priestess as the feminine magician. I’d always paired the HP with the Hierophant card. This is another way for me to look at

Keslynn	04 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by dangerdork Is Beethoven's 5th or the Mona Lisa going overboard? Those magicians had THEIR Muses -- there's more to creation than procreation. I guess I didn't describe it very well, and I still might perfectly be off in your view. What I was sort of thinking of when I mentioned going overboard is someone who just does it for show. The show then becomes more important than anything else, including the beloved and the art. While men have done many good things for the sake of women (and vice versa), there were other considerations mixed in, such as the art itself. The Magician who lacks this sense of perspective is merely show and bluster. That's what I was thinking about. This thread has made me think really hard about a card that I never really seemed to "get." It's great. :) Kes

JC	04 Jan 2003
Yes, artists go overboard all the time. Anecdotal evidence: My college has an award called the "Bullsh*t Art Award". Say you enter a sculpture consisting of a dirty boot on top of a pile of Monopoly money. In your artist's statement - an essay stating your intent when you made the piece - you say your sculpture "represents the rising up of the proletarian masses against the synthetic facade* of competitive corporate capitalism^." (You get bonus points for *redundancy and ^consonance.) And the artist's statement is the point of the entire show. It's about one's ability to justify almost anything he or she might create - even if the work itself is inherently devoid of meaning. Earlier I mentioned seeing the Fool as inspiration. Not all artists have healthy relationships with that quality; it's fickle and unreliable by nature. In school we are taught not too overrely on it and that great art comes from a logical progressions of thought and mental associations. This is in contrast to what Tarotbear said about the Magician knowing his power comes from a higher source. Despite the image on the Robin Wood Tarot, artists are not shamans or priests. We ultimately want to believe that what we create came from within ourselves, not from an outer source acting through us. Some of us experience this to the point of considering their works self-extentions.

allibee	04 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by JC Earlier I mentioned seeing the Fool as inspiration. Not all artists have healthy relationships with that quality; it's fickle and unreliable by nature. In school we are taught not too overrely on it and that great art comes from a logical progressions of thought and mental associations. This is in contrast to what Tarotbear said about the Magician knowing his power comes from a higher source. Despite the image on the Robin Wood Tarot, artists are not shamans or priests. We ultimately want to believe that what we create came from within ourselves, not from an outer source acting through us. eeewwww contentious! I don't! What about Kundalini? " Logical progressions of thought and mental associations?" So you can definately say where your brain finishes and your inner voice starts? Quote: Some of us experience this to the point of considering their works self-extentions. But there again, some of us don't. self extension of what? Your earthly self? Your spiritual self? Your soul? your mortal hands? allibee

dangerdork	04 Jan 2003
Allibee, here's an interesting angle on your questions: JC says the artist wants to believe that his work originates with himself and not through an external force, and you disagree... but by mentioning kundalini, you start to bring some Eastern mysticism into play. Maybe that is the key to the debate -- Western religions and systems of mystical philosophy presuppose a DUALITY of the Self and that thing we may call God or the Gods or Magick or the Spirit World, call it what you will, it's that deep, eternal, mysterious and unseen SOMETHING that we try to reach through ritual, meditation and faith. Maybe I should point out here, it's that thing that the Magician is so in touch with. However, Eastern mystical and religious thought presupposes at the foundation that there is NO duality, that each of us and all things in the material world are inseparable parts of the greater whole, that what Western thought stipulates as a separate realm or power or force is manifest in all of us, and does NOT exist outside of us... And in that case, you're both right. Art can come from within us as a unique manifestation of the Eternal, but great and inspired Art can be infused with that Holy Fire, that spirit of rightness and trueness and passion that only comes from those forces that extend beyond us as individuals.

Trish	04 Jan 2003
I see the Magician as a wielder. A possesser of ancient knowledge, and someone who has a sort of command of the surrounding environment. But a trickster? No, I don't think so. I suppose the High Priest could also be seen as a symbol of wisdom too, right? What do you think would make the Magician differ from him?

allibee	04 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Trish I suppose the High Priest could also be seen as a symbol of wisdom too, right? What do you think would make the Magician differ from him? One provides it in the name of his God, one uses it in the name of his God. I was trying to be succinct here, may have been TOO brief, but I'm hoping you all know what I'm trying to say :D allibee

allibee	04 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by dangerdork However, Eastern mystical and religious thought presupposes at the foundation that there is NO duality, that each of us and all things in the material world are inseparable parts of the greater whole, that what Western thought stipulates as a separate realm or power or force is manifest in all of us, and does NOT exist outside of us... I uphold my rights to partake of the universal spiritual buffet, where I can pick and mix to my hearts content :) allibee

dangerdork	04 Jan 2003
Well, I tried to word it so it was all hypothetical.... I'm with you though, Allibee, and that buffet is an awesome metaphor. One of the cool things about the tarot that attracts me so is its plasticity and adaptability as a spiritual, meditative or mystical system. It can be as serious or as frivolous as you want it to be, and the depth and breadth of its symbolism, especially with the great profusion of decks, can reflect whatever comparative or individuaal schools of thought that you want it to... I was just saying, in effect, that maybe if you put some Sweet & Sour sauce on the Moo Shoo Cat that it would taste good to both of you...

allibee	04 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by dangerdork maybe if you put some Sweet & Sour sauce on the Moo Shoo Cat that it would taste good to both of you... ummmm, sounds quite yummy;) allibee

JC	05 Jan 2003
I'm sorry if you think I used the word "we" too liberally. I did not mean to misrepresent you. The experiences in my post were simply my own, and I was using them to illustrate how I relate to the card in question. There is wide spectrum from Mantegna's (con)Artisan to Wood's Shaman, the spiritual healer. Each shows a different attitude toward creative energy. The Magician and Bateluer seem to fall somewhere in the middle of this spectrum - meaning they contain influences from both ends of it. The replies to the OP seemed to emphasize the Wood end of it, so I tried to point out the alternative. Most of the cards do seem neutral like this to me. There are few I experience as completely positive or negative.

allibee	05 Jan 2003
oh dear JC and Dangerdork, you both seem to think I've gone off the deep end here, honestly I haven't and I must use smilies and winkies *LOL* to show that, because you guys honestly san't see that I wasn't cross or upset in anyway at all. No need to apologise or justify things at all peeps :) allibee

dangerdork	06 Jan 2003
Allibee dear, if you DO go off the deep end, you'll be JOINING us! well, I suppose I shouldn't speak for JC... ;) but for my part, no offense taken and none intended, sometimes in this medium you can't have any fun unless you take the opposite stance from someone or say something provocative.

sagitarian	06 Jan 2003
I see the magician as representing a person who knows exactly what's going on, who will tell you straight up and not sugar coat things, who will honor your friendship/relationship, a devoted friend/lover, but as a lover he is a hard catch. It also represents a good time for the querent to make use of his/her imagination and creativity, to use all of their resources that are laying around the house to create and have fun, but do keep your priorities in line as well as your goals. He/she sees the truth, has the ability to manipulate, but rarely ever uses this trait unless it's for good purposes only (usually!).

Thirteen	06 Jan 2003
Right, few things to add to this very interesting dicussion: 1) The Magician as "Shaman"--remember that a Shaman is not the Judeo-Christian idea of a priest or Saint who gets his powers from a deity on high. Western culture is very bias on that account. It's scary and sinful to get magic from any source other than GOD. So if you heal with your hands, you'd better say it comes from God--or else folk will think it came from the devil and you're burned at the stake. Other cultures, however, have no problem with the idea that magic can come from sources other than a god on high--or with the belief that god is everywhere, and so magic is everywhere. A Shaman is one such example of this; he garners his powers from within himself and from the natural world around him. Now this SUITS the Magician, as the most powerful Shamans are shape changers (tricksters) and healers--DO NOT forget that with Mercury as it's ruling planet, the Magician is the signs of doctors. He's a medicine man. 2) Magician as artisan: yes indeed, he is a creator, an artist. But to think of him as the male ego inspired or trying to compete to impress the female limits the Magician. Remember what's laid out before him--the chalice is just ONE of four tools he can use. That means creating for LOVE is just one motivation. There's also creating for your faith, your philosophy (wands)--which young men do. They'll fight and die for the revolution, and they WILL paint a ceiling in a chapel to honor God. And then there's creating for justice and science (swords), and we all know men who just tinker and build and take apart car engines--because they love to tinker. They love working with their hands, doing the physical thing (pentacles). Thus, the Magician card isn't about a single inspiration, but all inspirations that motivate us to create. 3) Magician as trickster: Trish said she couldn't see the Magician as trickster, but as wonderful as the Magician card is, certainly a man who can weld together anything, words, ideas, dreams--he does have another side to him. All cards do. The thing to remember is that the Magician can create the IDEA of Camelot, put it into people's heads, even give them the engineering methods to build it--but he isn't going to be the one to actually go in there and set brick on brick. Think of Henry Hill from the Music Man--he talks of a marching band, gives people the IDEA of it, gives them the TOOLS (instruments) for it--but he ISN'T going to make it real. He isn't going to teach them how to play or march. And if it isn't made real, folk are left feeling tricked, bamboozled, aren't they? The Magician CAN be a trickster. 4) Fool and Magician: The Fool isn't inspiritation per se--he is the ENERGY of new beginnings. Of youth, of folly, of innocence, of the belief that anything is possible. He is the sheer energy of life and the desire to live. This makes him perfect for the Magician, who will, with words and illusions, build castles in the air for the Fool. Is the Fool being tricked or is the Fool being inspired? The Magician card could indicate either. Either way, the Fool is being given IDEAS. That is the Magician's power, as Mercury, the messanger, to give people IDEAS and the tools to make those ideas real.

The The Magician thread was originally posted on 01 Jan 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.