The Opposite of the Hierophant

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

dangerdork	08 Jan 2003
OK, we've left someone out of the Magician/Priestess/Hierophant discussion COMPLETELY. We're talking about spirituality, teachers and leaders, seeking answers, etc. To go back to pairs, I think a much better comparison and contrast to the Hierophant can be drawn by looking at the HERMIT. Easy to forget in this discussion, isn't he? Well, I'm sure that's fine with him. Does somebody else want to go first?

Umbrae	08 Jan 2003
Originally this card is a representation of our acute and constant awareness of our own mortality; and was called Chronos.

Alex	08 Jan 2003
"WHEN Zarathustra was thirty years old, he left his home and the lake of his home, and went into the mountains. There he enjoyed his spirit and his solitude, and for ten years did not weary of it. But at last his heart changed,- and rising one morning with the rosy dawn, he went before the sun, and spake thus unto it: _Thou great star! What would be thy happiness if thou hadst not those for whom thou shinest!...I am weary of my wisdom, like the bee that hath gathered too much honey; I need hands outstretched to take it. I would fain bestow and distribute, until the wise have once more become joyous in their folly, and the poor happy in their riches. Therefore must I descend into the deep: as thou doest in the evening, when thou goest behind the sea, and givest light also to the nether-world, thou exuberant star! Like thee must I go down, as men say, to whom I shall descend." Nietzsche -THUS SPAKE ZARATHUSTRA Quote: Originally posted by dangerdork We're talking about spirituality, teachers and leaders, seeking answers, etc. To go back to pairs, I think a much better comparison and contrast to the Hierophant can be drawn by looking at the HERMIT. Easy to forget in this discussion, isn't he? Well, I'm sure that's fine with him.

temperlyne	09 Jan 2003
To me the hierophant and the hermit represent the wise men, the teachers of the tarot. The hermit teaches one to to find your true self, the morality of your heart and soul. The hierophant teaches us the morality of the outside world.

Moongold	09 Jan 2003
The comparison of the Hierophant and the Hermit is a very interesting one. For me, the Hierophant represents the established order, whether it is in the Church, the Freemasons Society or the Country Women's Association. He seems to represent a system of beliefs and values and I guess that could be in a committee or a collective. For someone of my Catholic background it resonates of the Church and the history of Tarot does nothing to dissipate that. So the Hierophant can represent a structural or group view whereas the Hermit represents a more personal, individual introspection. Both archetypes can exist together. In fact, in healthy secular organizations they need to. We need the bureaucrats and we need the reflective practitioners. The best people can do both but it is very hard to maintain that duality in the contemporary organizational world. The Church used to maintain a commitment to both archetypes with the active religious orders and the contemplative ones. All religious orders are dying out now and a more contemporary analysis of the Church is that of the political, organizational Church (Hierophant) and the spiritual Church (Hermit, High Priestess, Magician et al). The Hierophant has other aspects too. He can be that bridge between the spiritual collective and the secular world. He can be the teacher and he can represent a particular kind of male spirituality. I say the latter only because he was formerly called the Pope. I am now in the year of the Hermit and take this to be a time when I need to look inwards, to actually live within my own spiritual skin but that is a whole other story. I love the image of the solitary figure with the lantern. It is a softly paternal image, much more acceptable than the orthodox Hierophant. Perhaps the Hermit is more truly represenative of positive, untainted male spirituality. The Desert Fathers, Thomas Merton, Father Damian, Frances of Assisi? It occurs to me as I write this just now that I personally can use this image in a healing way this year. Maybe, also, the Hermit and the High Priestess can be understood as parallel archetypes. These last few days of discussions about groupings and comparisons have been interesting and entertaining, It is probably stating the obvious but there always have been different interpretations of cards by the looks of it. And if one reads intuitively, that would certainly add to the repertoire of differences. Moongold

lupo138	09 Jan 2003
one could see the Hierophant as the priest in the church, belonging to the world-clerus, while the Hermit is the monk, the mystic. Anyway I do not think that these two form a pair. To me the Hermit is development, ascetic, with the above mentioned aspect of time as well (Chronos). Buddha would be the Hermit, but not the Hierophant. The same applies to Zarathustra and others - Mohammed for instance. On the other hand I would rather see Franciscus of Assisi as a Hierophant - a nice one, an innovator, a leader amongst them, but still a Hierophant.

jmd	09 Jan 2003
In case you're interested, here is an older thread which also included discussion on this: Pope,Strength,Hermit,Temperance. For myself, I consider that the Hierophant's 'opposite' is very much the Devil: whereas the Hierophant seeks to maintain and pass on to others spiritual teachings, the Devil focusses and seeks to maintain the dead structures which inevitably build around sacred work.

juice	09 Jan 2003
Another opposite of the heirophant is the emporor. Both rule in worldly manifestations. The emporor rules mundane organized socialized life and can come to call it self pharoah. The hierophant rules sacred organized socialized life and can come to own 3/4 of the land and start to take over mundane affairs for the good of the church err people's spiritual developement.

temperlyne	09 Jan 2003
I always thought of temperance as the opposite of the devil. Balance versus chaos, the perfect blend versus the overdosis. Its nive to see other point of views, thats what I love about this forum!

Keslynn	09 Jan 2003
I think of the Hierophant and the Hermit as somewhat interchangeable, rather than as a one way process. Sometimes a person could get very high in the church and then feel the need to withdraw from the world to seek God on their own. Going the other direction, many of the desert fathers (as the ascetic hermits were often called) got a lot of followers despite their wishes and ended up filling the Hierophant sort of role as a spiritual leader. Also, it might be useful to keep in mind that all religious orders are not cloistered and hermit-like. Take for example the Franciscans, whose mission was to go around preaching and taking alms. The Jesuits are the soldiers of Jesus. Not very cloistered if you ask me. I'll have to think this through a little more. This is a really interesting discussion. :) Kes

Webfoot	09 Jan 2003
Hierophant/Hermit Some disconnected thoughts to throw into the pot. (By the way, loved your rant on the Hierophant, Dangerdork. Sixteen years of Catholic schoolin here.) I see the Hierophant as symbolizing group belief and the way those beliefs are acquired and organized—handed down by authority in a ritualized, systematic way. Institutionalized. I see “beliefs” as not only traditionally spiritual but secular, as bodies of knowledge that are revered and carefully passed on. The canon, the curriculum. And they do tend to become rigid and formalized. Group beliefs and assumptions are powerful, the more so because they are often unexamined. Examining those beliefs and assumptions is the province of the Hermit. Seeking answers: Think the Hermit is the seeker, the Hierophant is more interested in preserving the given answers and passing them on. Hermit could be seen as the student/acolyte who’s become disenchanted with parts of the given wisdom. I think we all follow that path—some times the Hierophant teacher, sometimes the student, sometimes the seeker. Just a thought: I had been thinking of another aspect of the Hierophant. He’s been called spiritual or maybe moral power as against the Emperor’s temporal power. But what does he stand for in a society where church and state are separate, more or less, and “the church” has become many different and disparate beliefs. The popes no longer crown the king. Of course, recently, in the US the “king” was in a sense crowned by another kind of authority—the supreme court. I had been thinking about the law as another kind of moral authority and so the Justice card comes to mind.

Moongold	09 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Webfoot Hierophant/Hermit Of course, recently, in the US the “king” was in a sense crowned by another kind of authority—the supreme court. I had been thinking about the law as another kind of moral authority and so the Justice card comes to mind. Interesting. Couldn't the Law be the Hierophant still? We are looking at systematized values and beliefs. Any kind of corporate or collective belief could be the Hierophant, I think. I tend to associate Heriophant with religion but it need not be. I think it would be really interesting for someone to compare Justice and Judgement in a separate discussion. They are often not connected to the law. Moongold

Alex	10 Jan 2003
A teacher in the broadest sense, a group leader... what does it mean to be "still" a Hierophant? Like something "less" than being "the Hermit"? I see it the other way around. Gathering wisdom in order to offer it to others, The Hermit preceeds the Hierophant, at least one that would be worthy listening too. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by lupo138 Buddha would be the Hermit, but not the Hierophant. The same applies to Zarathustra and others - Mohammed for instance. On the other hand I would rather see Franciscus of Assisi as a Hierophant - a nice one, an innovator, a leader amongst them, but still a Hierophant.

Alex	10 Jan 2003
feminist movement? (I'm not defending or attacking that movement here, just using it as an example). A group of people liderated by a few people certainly influenced the way our society looks at the "acquired and organized" values and beliefs. The Hierophant is not only represented by the modern, politically correct trend that "dictates" men and women have "almost the same" rights. It is also represented by those liders and their followers, who believed men and women should have equal rights, and who dared "forcing" the way for these values into the rest of the society. Another example is Adolph Hittler, who was capable of polarizing certain aspects of a nation's psyche and liderate a movement that ended up destroying a good portion of the world. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by Webfoot I see the Hierophant as symbolizing group belief and the way those beliefs are acquired and organized—handed down by authority in a ritualized, systematic way. Institutionalized. I see “beliefs” as not only traditionally spiritual but secular, as bodies of knowledge that are revered and carefully passed on. The canon, the curriculum. And they do tend to become rigid and formalized. Group beliefs and assumptions are powerful, the more so because they are often unexamined. Examining those beliefs and assumptions is the province of the Hermit.

lupo138	10 Jan 2003
I am sorry but in case you would mean a relation between Buddha, Hitler and the Feminist movement I would not be able to see that. Would you explain it ?

Alex	10 Jan 2003
I tried to cite examples of important liders and/or social movements in human history. Quote: Originally posted by lupo138 I am sorry but in case you would mean a relation between Buddha, Hitler and the Feminist movement I would not be able to see that. Would you explain it ?

Thirteen	11 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jmd For myself, I consider that the Hierophant's 'opposite' is very much the Devil: whereas the Hierophant seeks to maintain and pass on to others spiritual teachings, the Devil focusses and seeks to maintain the dead structures which inevitably build around sacred work. I'm very much with you, jmd, on this. The Hierophant and Emperor don't have to be opposites. The Emperor handles the secular world, the Hierophant the religious. The King needs the Church there at his side, as his partner. Also advising him and keeping him honest (one hopes!). They both, in the best of all possible worlds, care about people. The Emperor cares about feeding, clothing, protecting, organizing them, the Hierophant about teaching, comforting, guiding them. Very much as mentioned in the Magician/Priestess/Hierophant thead, you have father (Emperor) and grandfather (Hierophant). Doesn't mean they can't clash, and argue opposite sides--but as many times as they're polar, they're also in concert. The Devil, on the other hand, is NEVER in concert with the Hierophant. He's always polar--pictured in a way that mimics, even mocks the Hierophant on a throne with two "acolytes" at his feet--he's the guy at the door of vice who says to the kid on his way to Sunday School--"Hey, Kid, why're you going to church? It's much more fun in here...." The Devil and the Hierophant are always going to fight, because they're battling over the same thing--people's hearts, minds, souls, morality. The Hierophant wants folk following certain social/religious rules--celibacy before marriage, do unto others, Honor thy father and mother...that sort of thing. Be a good sheep, part of the herd. Meanwhile, the Devil wants folk to break all those rules, to do just the opposite. Run wild, give into desires. Be individuals. VERY opposite. As for the Hermit: I think Alex hit it on the head. Other folk don't really matter to him, unless it's one or two worthy students. It's the HIEROPHANT's mission to show others the light, there at the pulpit each Sunday. The HERMIT's mission is to show HIMSELF the light. And that need not be a spiritual light. I always think of Diogenes with his lantern, searching for an honest man. Scientists who spend their lives with nothing more than chalk and a blackboard. Very like Cronos there, it's just him and the universe. The mysteries within, the mysteries without.

allibee	11 Jan 2003
Could one say (in an all encompassing way*LOL*) then that the HP is spirituality, Hierophant is religion and the Hermit a missionary - although his mission is somewhat internalised - I can't think of the right word. Just a thought allibee

Thirteen	11 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by allibee Could one say (in an all encompassing way*LOL*) then that the HP is spirituality, Hierophant is religion and the Hermit a missionary - although his mission is somewhat internalised - I can't think of the right word. I do see them as being similar--most particular in that they all are characters that a seeker would go to for otherworldly advice--unlike the Empress/Emperor who you'd talk to about more practical, earthy matters. Interestingly, also, I think they correspond to three important phases in life: The Priestess is a decision maker--this way or that, how to balance things out. What is the path between the extremes of these black and white pillars--I think she's still with the Fool and the Magician, where things are still raw and unformed. Here is how you deal with your own feelings, intuitions, distant dreams. *If the Fool is childhood, the Magician teenhood (ideas, defining who you are, what you want, etc), then the Priestess is college-age or 20-something. Beginning to formulate what you really believe, where you really want to go or be in adulthood. Learning secrets, a trade, or just "the ropes." The Priestess is the one to advise you in how to walk this path, to help you with the research. The Hierophant is the spiritual advisor in the material world--how do you deal with fear, temptation, base desires? I think Umbrae had it right when he mentioned Gandhi as a Hierophant (or Jesus for that matter)--the Hierophant makes you think of others, how to be a better human being among human beings. *Here, the person has left college and is in the working world, in the community, getting married, having kids, becoming a neighbor. How do you do that? The Hierophant is the one to ask, and to give very astute advice. He's the one who will tell you to check your temper or think of the kids, or to be part of a charity drive. The Hermit is voice of experience--how does all your knowledge and experience change the way you see things? The way you see yourself? The way you see the world? *This is the end of the line. The kids are grown, you retire from your job, you get an isolated cabin in the woods or start to travel to places you never got a chance to go to. It's that last chance for that last life change--and along with it, a change in perspective. Not what you're going to be or do, not what you are as defined by others--but just what you are, alone, with all you've done and seen and been to back you up. The Hermit is the one to shine the light here, to show you the stuff you may have missed while you were "learning the ropes" or being a good neighbor and parent. Stuff about yourself, and the world around you that you never got to see before. Those, at least, are my thoughts on the trio.

MeeWah	12 Jan 2003
I think I can see DangerDork's view of The Hierophant versus The Hermit. The Hierophant is the priest or minister who acts as man's intermediary between his deity & himself. As Moongold stated, he is the bridge between the secular & the spiritual. (I have always thought the Catholic Church had a good idea in the concept of "confession" to one's priest.) As such, a supporting role is as a teacher. The Hermit is his own spiritual counselor, one who has gained knowledge by virtue of experiences & advances to self-sufficiency. He chooses to withdraw from worldly experiences to apply the acquired wisdom in forming an inner relationship with his higher self. The Hierophant is concerned with the application of spiritual wisdom in the mundane world; the worldly structure, societal mores & maintaining the established structures; reiterating what is already written & concrete. The Hermit seeks spiritual knowledge in relation to self structure; to expand the inner boundaries by questioning & assessing & thus, move beyond perceived limitations.

sagitarian	13 Jan 2003
is this: 1. Hieorphant ~ One who gives advice but doesn't know what he speaks of. Too eager to "guide" someone before knowing the whole story. As been said before, a spiritual leader of sort, but one that just regergiatates what he's been told and/or learned from other organizations. A priest, school counselor, a police man, he can fit into any type of "organization" from any school of thought. The point is, he speaks foolishly in my opinion. If this card comes up in a reading, I tell the querent to be weary of advice being given to you. If you trust the source that it comes from then so be it, but it's very narrow minded advice. Examin all your choices first. Those who give advice know not of what they give. Those who speak the truth know what they speak. 2. The Hermit ~ One who seeks solitude for enlightenment. As been said, the seeker of true wisdom and my sister brought up an interesting point in a conversation about the hermit not too long ago (sure I'm trashing it though). The thought was that the lantern represents him lighting the way to his inner self to achieve the enlightenment he seeks. (or something to that effect) which I agree with! He is the one that would listen to all sides of the story fairly and then speak his thoughts (if he cared at all to share them). And I completely agree with the thought that the high priestess is the young adulthood (college years). She's always been one of my more difficult cards to read, perhaps that's why. The fact that she's not fully developed, but she thinks she knows exactly what she's doing. Justice ~ I take a wierd outlook on this one. To me, it means that the material world is at work wether it be good or bad. That the querent is dealing with something to do with the justice system and/or bank. In any case, legal documents are at hand and to be careful. Read all the fine print and make sure you know what you are signing. Judgement ~ Another card that has always been hard for me to read. I usually see it as a card that represents the querent in that s/he is codependent on the way that others view him/her. Others people opinion (or maybe just someone in particular) matters so much that they are willing to make drastic changes in their life according to this view point made onto him/her. OR that it means they are being over opinionated, judging others where they have no right to, perhaps even outcasting those who have done no wrong. It could also be one who judges him/herself too harshly, a negative self esteem and a strict set of rules in which he/she lives their life by. So personally, I don't see any relation to Judgement or Justice. I think their two completely different things. I do see the Hermit and the Hieorphant as opposites, NOT a pair!

The The Opposite of the Hierophant thread was originally posted on 08 Jan 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.