A card which relates to drunkeness?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Feb 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Trogon	05 Feb 2003
Howdy y'all... For the past couple of weeks, I've been pretty consistent about doing my daily 3-card pyramid reading when I get to work each night. (I got this spread at TarotSpreads.Com.) As some of you may already know, I work in law enforcement (though I'm not a police officer). Anyway - on two occasions over the past several days, I've had The Chariot (reversed) come up in my daily reading as the "main theme" card... on both of those nights we've had to deal with people who were drunk and causing major problems. This has made me start thinking about The Chariot (reversed) and how it can relate to a lack of control and how that relates to people losing control, becoming intoxicated and creating problems for themselves and others. I will certainly be watching out for these sorts of problems when I see this card come up again. I am wondering what your thoughts might be on what other cards might relate to these situations? By the way... several of the police officers I work with now check with me to see what my daily reading has indicated... ;)

Alissa	05 Feb 2003
Interesting! I usually am rather pedestrian in relating drunkeness to the Devil card, more often than not, but you're take on Chariot reversed is quite interesting! I had a relatively recent reading where the querent saw the Chariot rev. in the spread and said that card had come up again and again for him of late. My interpretation was things were not movnig fast enough for him in the business venture he was involved in. However, the "control" aspect of this card is verrrrrry interesting in the context you have used it. I'm looking forward to others replies. (And -- English-major geeking out here -- isn't it interesting that "being in your cups," in Tarot, probably wouldn't mean anything LIKE drunkeness)?

jlbvt	05 Feb 2003
This makes sense in your situation, but I wouldn't say that the Reversed Chariot in most people's situations would mean the same thing. I also think that the card is saying more about the vehicles being driven poorly than about the people who are losing control by drinking. I got a Reversed Chariot with a 10 of pentacles (if I remember right) the other night when I really wanted to go out for dinner to a nice restaurant. It turned out that I was not able to go because things kept popping up that we had to take care of. But we ended up having dinner and spending a quiet evening at my parent's house, and that was nice too. I think that Chariot Reversed means any problem with travel plans or with an actual car sometimes.

tehuti	05 Feb 2003
I wonder if the two could be seen as expressing different aspects of the problem? The Chariot reversed, being about lack of control and willpower, could represent the state in which a person drinks themselves unconscious, goes on a bender, etc. The Devil, being about states of bondage, could represent the condition of the alcoholic, who is held in bondage by the addiction but with the possibility of becoming free through an effort on his/her part. In astrology, I would see drunkeness as being one manifestation of an afflicted Neptune. The tarot correspondence to Neptune is the Hanged Man. However, I can't see any connection between this card and drunkenness.

lunalafey	05 Feb 2003
8 of Cups would be more of a drunk card, but I can see how the chariot might lean towards this. The chariot is ruled by cancer, a water sign and the moon rules the sign of cancer. Here we deal with liquids. Other cards in the spread could back this up. The transportation aspect is strong because of the chariot, but you did not mention they where driving...only causing problems...was there a page in your spreads? or an Ace?

Umbrae	05 Feb 2003
Interesting thought…I see the Rx Chariot more or less as control issues, and you know – that’s the worst type of drunk…I was a bartender for over seven years…they are the worst, and come in both sexes…

Scorpion	05 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by tehuti In astrology, I would see drunkeness as being one manifestation of an afflicted Neptune. The tarot correspondence to Neptune is the Hanged Man. However, I can't see any connection between this card and drunkenness. I once got the Hanged Man in the Spiral deck where it related to drunkeness because in that deck the Hanged Man is represented by Dionysius. I see 3 Cups Rx as a possible card for drunkeness. too - celebration taken to the limit.

WolfSpirit	05 Feb 2003
I have interpreted Temperance in its reversed meaning as problems with (too much) alcohol...

imagoddess	05 Feb 2003
The Moon, and the 9 of Cups reversed in the RW.

ihcoyc	05 Feb 2003
There are probably several kinds of drunkenness, and several cards that go with. Myself, I tend to associate getting seriously drunk with 5 Cups. But that's because when I am drunk, I want to play the same song over and over again and bawl. You can also have a 7 of cups drunkenness, and (let's not forget) 3 and 9 of cups can be drunken cards, in different ways. Far worse are the 5 of Wands drunks, or the Chariot Rx drunks --- probably the ones you are going to run into in law enforcement. And of course the Devil is alcoholism as an ongoing thing.

nina	06 Feb 2003
Hello, I always related the Seven of Cups and the Four of Cups to drinking (7 for living in denial with the help of alcohol; four for drowning one's sorrows), when it fits the rest of the reading, and also Temperance in certain contexts (I don't do reversals). Sometimes the Page of Cups jumps out at me as a herald of a pleasant celebration involving drinking- like a dinner party or something- no debauchery, just a happy time with friends and wine. I don't always see the The Devil as addiction, a lot of times he's self-sabatoge and fear (well, I guess addiction ties into that. For some reason, on an intuitional level, The Magician has something to do with addiction in my view. Maybe I'm crazy, I've never read it anywhere. -nina

Moongold	06 Feb 2003
Drunkenness and alcoholism can be at different parts of the continuum. Alcoholism is as much a spiritual problem as a physical disease, and the AA literature mentions the concept of *self-will run riot* as a characteristic of the spiritual malaise. The Chariot Rx really fits here. There are all sorts of other interesting concepts associated with problematic alcohol use: denial and delusion (Moon and 7 Cups), deceit (7 Swords), remorse (5 Cups - this is a beaut representation of morning after stuff. Also 9 Swords - real hangover stuff), being spiritually trapped (8 Swords). On the pleasant side, 9 Cups looks like a nice celebration with friends. Moongold

Kiama	06 Feb 2003
I too, think there are different types of drunkeness. First there is the happy, celebratory, one-off drunkeness, which I sometimes see in the 3 of Cups and 9 of Cups. Then there is he unhappy, alcholism, which I often see in the 4 of Cups. I also see the Knight of Cups as a person who is easily prone to alcholism. (Not always though!) Kiama

MeeWah	06 Feb 2003
Most oft, I have seen 3-Cups upright to indicate "being in one's cups" or excessive drinking. Less oft, 5-Cups--usually it refers to the aftermath which may include seeing or facing the consequences (such as actions whilst inebriated), remorse, so on. 7-Cups has been associated with a mixed bag of various addictiive behaviours, including indiscriminate relationships or promiscuous behaviour. Ditto for Ace-Cups for all of the afore-mentioned. None of the cards have been reversed when I have read them as indicated. 7-The Chariot could apply, given the lack of control or discipline that I have seen to have a spiritual basis; also 15-The Devil, 14-Temperance. Again, these cards were not reversed.

Trogon	08 Feb 2003
Thank you all for your replies. Great stuff! ;) In answer to the question as to the types of behaviour we were dealing with on these nights, in general we're talking about vandalism, noise, fights, etc. Generally disruptive behaviour. Fortunately in these instances no one was seriously hurt. On neither of the nights in question did we have drunk driving as the problem. The other cards in these readings? As I mentioned, in both of them, The Chariot rx was the "Peak or Main Theme" card... I don't think I had mentioned it before, but both of these readings were with the Victoria Regina Tarot. In the more recent one (night of Feb 3/4); 1-(beginning) Prince of Cups-rx 2-(peak) Chariot-rx 3-(ending) The Magician the other reading was for the night of 1-25/26; 1-(beginning) 7 Wands 2-(peak) Chariot-rx 3-(ending) Death-rx Interestingly, Lunalafey mentioned the 8 of Cups as one indicating drunkeness as well... Guess what? The 8 of Cups came up in my reading tonight (beginning) with the 4 of Disks (peak)... we had 2 driving while intoxicated arrests and a fight (between several drunks - of course). Tonight I used the Röhrig Tarot for my reading and completely mis-intrepreted it... LOL! But it's all a learning experience!

Alex	08 Feb 2003
Nine of Cups drunk is kida fun. Quote: Originally posted by ihcoyc 3 and 9 of cups can be drunken cards, in different ways.

le-mat	09 Feb 2003
i once predicted my brother was drinking with some friends with this card.

Alex	09 Feb 2003
Oh that makes sense. Seven cups with various stuffs in them. Some people don't even know what's the drug of the moment that is running in their veins_ so much they take. Quote: Originally posted by MeeWah 7-Cups has been associated with a mixed bag of various addictiive behaviours, including indiscriminate relationships or promiscuous behaviour.

The A card which relates to drunkeness? thread was originally posted on 05 Feb 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.