anybody know any mnemonics for the Majors?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Feb 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| rota |
06 Feb 2003 |
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I don't know about you guys, but I have a lot of trouble remembering which numbers go with which Majors. Some are easy: Justice is (mostly) 11, Death 13, Fool, Magician, HP, Emperor, Hierophant...
Here's what I'm wondering: do you know of any easily rememberable mnemonic for recalling all the Keys, in order?
(mnemonic: you know -- Every good boy does fine for EGBDF, or "30 days hath September for remembering which months have which number of days...)
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| HudsonGray |
07 Feb 2003 |
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Not that I've heard, though someone else may have come up with one. But for me I follow with the Fool's Journey, knowing which card comes after which card because of the road/learning that he/she traveled. Would that help you do you think?
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| jmd |
07 Feb 2003 |
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HudsonGray has, I think, given the outline of a very effective mnemonic for the Majors: develop a story/road of the sequence of the Majors (have a look, for example, at Diana's The Bateleur's Tale).
Other than this, I suggest that just plain regular looking at the Majors in sequence will familiarise their numerical order (as familiarisation helps in remembering both the standard alphabetical (a-z) and the numerical (1-10) sequences).
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| fairyhedgehog |
07 Feb 2003 |
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This is going to sound like a silly question, but why does it matter what number goes with which Major?
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| Kirali |
07 Feb 2003 |
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Originally posted by fairyhedgehog
This is going to sound like a silly question, but why does it matter what number goes with which Major?
I suppose for the numerological aspect. Certain meanings with certain numbers? I don't really know much about that subject though.
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| Diana |
07 Feb 2003 |
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Because numbers are an integral part of Tarot. Without numbers, Tarot would be an "ordinary" oracle. For example, just knowing that the Emperor is number IV, makes an awful lot of difference to how one interprets him. If he was number III, we would interpret him differently.
And don't forget, that minors are linked to the Majors. When you have a ten of something (let's say Cups), well that ten is linked to the Wheel of Fortune.
Which is why the old argument about Strength and Justice is not just an argument for argument's sake; putting a zero on the Fool is not just an innocent little act which makes no difference. It changes the whole interpretation of the arcana.
Tarot without numbers, would be like a tree without any roots.
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| Thirteen |
07 Feb 2003 |
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Originally posted by fairyhedgehog
This is going to sound like a silly question, but why does it matter what number goes with which Major?
Actually, the earliest decks had no numbers. So on the one hand, no it doesn't. On the other, later decks (like RW), DO have a numbered system for a reason. There is numerology involved and the majors relate to the minors. Thus all the "two" have something in common with the High Priestess.
The sticky part, of course, comes with some of the newest decks which often play fast and lose with cards (putting in some of their own, taking out some of the classic ones) and numbers. Whether you care about the numbers in a reading or not is up to you. You can ignore them completely. I can say that I usually do unless I get a lot of the same number. A bunch of 7's for example.
Which brings us back to Rota's question:
I don't usually tout my Tarot Basics--I come across as arrogant and obnoxious enough as it is ;) --but I think they could help in this case.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/basics/index.html
While there is no "simple" mnemonic device, you can get the first 10 down by connecting them to the Minors--what are "9's" like for example. They're "retreat and complete cards"--ah, that's the Hermit.
For the rest, take them in smaller batches. For example: "Star, Moon, Sun," and "Justice, Hanged-Man, Death"--get relationships in trios. Then, if you know one number (Justice = 11) you'll know the other two. Does that help?
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| HudsonGray |
07 Feb 2003 |
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Numbers are very important for some, yet completely dismissed by others--I guess it's a personal choice in how we want to relate to the deck. I'm not into numerology or runes, so don't pay much attention to the number significance in the majors, myself. I use intuitive readings, and follow where the connections there take me. If I was into astrology I'd be looking at the tarot in a different way. Same for any training in Quabbala or runes or any of the other systems people tie into the tarot.
Just follow where you want to learn, Rota, if numbers mean something to you, use them & study them. If you want to use any of the other tie ins, use those too. Like they say, there is no wrong way.
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| rota |
07 Feb 2003 |
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Great find, Minos! Not exactly what I was looking for, but remarkable nonetheless.
Thanks for not dismissing my question as foolish. Heaven knows I've asked dumber questions and been treated seriously nonetheless. Yes, numerology is very important to me, as it seems to have been to all those major figures in tarot history who have contributed to the tarot as we know it now. Pythagoras, for instance, is one of my 'heroes of antiquity', like Zenobia and Hypatia, and I feel similarly about more recent people who contribute to the correspondences between number and letter.
I'm not sure why I have this mental block about cards and numbers... I've studied the sequence and the meanings and the history and the art for years. I've drawn them all often enough... You'd think they'd just be there for me, like other things I've learned. I guess if I want a mnemonic device, I'll have to construct one.
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| Minos |
07 Feb 2003 |
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The other thing that's helped me (although it sounds dumb and pretentious) is to force yourself to refer to the cards by their numbers. For instance, instead of saying or thinking "Fortune", force yourself to say/think "Atu X".
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| Umbrae |
08 Feb 2003 |
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Mnemonics…I took a couple memory courses, I can’t recall which ones…
What they shared is that you need to construct your own sequences, mnemonic structure…my structure would not translate to your view of mental imagery.
Or would it?
The fool’s journey is a lovely mnemonic story, but then folks began using it as gospel.
If I stood in your shoes, what I would do is take my notebook (journal) with all MY notes, and pace and read them aloud. There is a ‘thing’ that occurs when your body is in a repetitive motion, and you are speaking aloud, further, you would be locking in your own world-view, and not the world-view of others.
Pace and chant your journal.
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| jmd |
08 Feb 2003 |
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The earliest extant Tarot decks of the Visconti-Sforza variety were certainly un-numbered, and variations do occur with other early decks. Part of the question remains whether the Major Arcana has 'proper' internal numeration, or whether this can easily be played with and altered for the sake of insights in other systems (astrology, for example ;)).
The site Minos refers to is unusual, for it seems to pertain to the Thoth Harris/Crowley deck, yet gives the sequence of the RWS - as well as making claims to one paricular association, rejected by others.
I suppose that, in this thread again, this question about the numeration of the RWS vs the Marseilles, and whether either one, the other, a third, or no specific numbering is intrinsic to the Tarot shows itself to be so important.
If there is an alphabetic correlation (Hebrew or otherwise), then it could be a very useful mnemonic - though I suspect that, for many non-Hebrew speakers, the letters themselves are remembered by the association made with the card, not the other way around. Again, if there is an intrinsic (Hebrew) letter association, then, as Alef is 'One', does this mean that the number of the Magician or the Fool is one... and is the Fool or Judgement 300?
The letter mnemonics may work for sequential ordering, but not for their numerical values. Card XVII (the Star), has, presumably, not only an 'assigned' numeration of 17, but also itself embodies a quality of seventeen-ness. If this is the case (which not all may agree with), then the number VIII (8) is not the number XI (11) - but which is which, and was the switch a correction or an error!?!
Here, obviously many wonderful co-contributers on this wonderful Forum part ways - and we'll have to accept that we just disagree. For me, Waite made a mistake in using presumed astrological correspondences and altering one system (the Tarot) for the sake of the other (astrology): VIII is Justice, XI Strength - of course, it is now hard to see this given the volumes published to the contrary...but the Earth does orbit the Sun - as does the Sun the Earth, though their respective mass makes the dance appear uneven! To complete the post - and whichever numbering you use, I agree with Minos's last post: practicing referring to the Majors by their numbering (rather than their also important titles) will undoubtedly help :).
...and, of course, pace, dance and sing each card - by name, number and visualised image!
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The anybody know any mnemonics for the Majors? thread was originally posted on 06 Feb 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.
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