Difficult/challenging cards in "positive" area of spread.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

samantha	27 Mar 2003
Alot has been written about the way that each card has its easy/difficult , light/dark side , and for most of the time I can go along with this. However , there do seem to be some cards (5 pentacles is one which comes to mind ) which IME tend to tip more one way than the other. So , if you get one of these cards in a possitive area of the spread a) what is your gut reaction and b) do you deal with it any differently than any of the other cards? The other day I pulled the Tower for "what is going to be beneficial about this relationship" (for a couple) My gut reaction was "There isn't going to be anything beneficial......" Then I thought , ok look deeper.......and pulled 3 wands for clarification (the surrounding cards hadn't helped much ), which IMHO made the situation look better . So basically , if a card is in a position which is "possitive" do you look for what is good in the card , regardless of the way the scales seem to be tipped ? (I know that what is initially difficult etc can lead to possitive ends ....perhaps as was the case above , but sometimes these cards are in a here and now possition , which makes them even more difficult to understand.)

lawguy51	27 Mar 2003
My thoughts might have been that this relationship might give you an explosive new insight, take you to a new level of commitment or emotional feeling. That perhaps this relationship might break some habitual pattern that you have found yourself in in past relationships. I know nothing about you or your relationship, my point being, the Tower can be a card of great power, of literally seeing the light, of the gift of knowledge, of enlightenment and the tearing down of previous held outlived values or thought patterns. Not such a bad thing for a new relationship, eh? Lawguy51

Thirteen	27 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by samantha So basically , if a card is in a position which is "possitive" do you look for what is good in the card , regardless of the way the scales seem to be tipped ? The answer to your question is "yes." What you have to understand is that no matter how negative a card may seem, even the most "negative" have a positive aspect. And vice versa. So if you have a position that indicates "what's positive" you need to use rose-colored glasses when examining the card. Find the silver lining, and trust that it's there, no matter how dark the cloud. The Tower can signal catastrophe--but it's one where the truth comes clear. So what's positive is that there will be no lies, no false structures. You can trust what you see, what you're told, what you feel. It's the truth. I VERY much like lawguy's interpetation, by the way. Same for other "negative" cards. 10/Swords can be positive in that something awful is finally over. 3/Swords can be positive in that folk aren't holding back any longer--the knives are out, the hurt is done, now healing can begin. See?

Umbrae	28 Mar 2003
Call me silly, but I never understood why the tower is seen as such a bad bad card; but then I never read those silly books. Tower bad? I suppose if you are on the inside it is. Then again if the folks on the inside are treating you mean, and the tower falls on them…it could be a good thing…right? It is dependant on your context, to the tower. So as far as what you can learn, from a relationship? That it’s okay to be free. For once in your life, it’s okay to feel. Perhaps you are no longer ‘watched over’ and ‘guarded’ by others. Just a thought…

lawguy51	28 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen I VERY much like lawguy's interpetation, by the way. I had a very good first teacher...Tarot Basics! Thanks for the nod, Thirteen. Lawguy51

WolfSpirit	29 Mar 2003
samantha since you mentioned the five of pentacles - I never saw much good in it either until I read another meaning of it, not "scarcity" but "preparing for scarcity". Take care of whatever you do - read small legal print - keep your paperwork tidy so you know what you are up against - keep many irons in the fire so you are not dependent of one thing. Hope this helps to see the card more positive.

Lady Mary	31 Mar 2003
Tower: Live won’t be boring. Sparks will fly and this relationship won’t be dull or unexciting. Isn’t it worst when “nothing ever happens” – the end of many relationships. Three of Wands: To be open to new things, exploring. Both partners are strong and on their way to new adventures.

Diana	31 Mar 2003
Tower situations most often indicate very sudden, unexpected change. It certainly doesn't necessarily mean anything unpleasant. It can mean something unpleasant, but it can also mean the best thing that can ever happen to you. Breaking out of one's often self-imposed constraints. Out from the dungeon into the sunshine! The sun can be a bit blinding, but oh, freedom is there! The grass is green and soft after those years spent inside a narrow tower. Scary! Sure - freedom is scary sometimes, especially when one hasn't planned it. So yes, if a card is in a positive position, I would definitely read it as that. There is nothing more liberating than a Tower. As to the five of Coins (pentacles). It can just be a reminder to behave responsibly - not to squander what one has. Please try and get your mind off that dreary picture in the Rider Waite deck - it's only one interpretation of this card. Each Tarot card has a myriad of interpretations, depending on its position in your spread and which cards surround it. As to your reading: this is not going to be a lazy boat-ride down the river! Keep your hand on your hat so it doesn't fly off!

Astraea	31 Mar 2003
I find it helpful to let my physical senses contribute to my understanding of the cards. In the case of the Tower, I can practically smell the ozone -- the fresh, sharp scent after lightning has released its quantum of energy and cleared a path in space. The 5 of Pentacles is (among other things) the experience of being in the body and deeply sensing its needs, on whichever levels they manifest. Awareness of the energies behind each card -- which are essentially neutral -- opens a broader spectrum of information, which can be refined, channeled and directed by the card's position in a spread.

amyel	31 Mar 2003
Maybe if you have an idea of what a relationship is and how it should be going, this relationship could shake things up - challenge your foundations, so to speak. For example, if you always dated bohemian types and these relationships never really worked for you, and this person is someone who you might have passed by before - maybe because they had short hair & you like long hair, is a redhead when you like blondes, maybe a stockbroker when you liked unemployed activists - whatever - then this relationship is going to shake you up. None of this is a "bad" or negative thing. Maybe it has nothing to do with the *type* of people you are attracted to, but the ideals they hold that might challenge yours. We see that here on this forum often - folks have different views - none are wrong or bad, just different from what we have come to believe or experience, and this challenges us. Maybe even helps us move on to another level. The tower in this position : What is beneficial about this relationship - could mean you are going to be challenged and change something that used to provide you with stability. Since it is the Tower, it is "external forces". As a personal example, when I met the man I eventually married, I had dated alot of guys who were younger then me and were in the military. These never worked out. When I met my husband, he had grey hair & worked PT in a bar. It was only after our 2 or 3 date that I found - you guessed it - he was younger then me & his FT job was in the military. But by that time, I had come to see his other qualities and attitudes, and these two things that would have previously excluded him right away no longer mattered. As a side note, the relationship itself contineus to challenge me and forces me to grow and redefine what I previously ahd taken for granted or assumed. This doesn't make it a bad relationship - a little chaotic at times, but that's ok. :)

Alissa	31 Mar 2003
I once was reading for a woman who was trying to negotiate fairly with her ex over custody rights, and was now being torn apart in court with accusations. Her children were put in the middle. In the position "What needs left behind" was Strength. Whoa! A good card, being left behind? Opposing it, in the position "What needs created" was Queen of Wands, rev. Oh my, she was leaving behind the "good" card and embracing the negative, and combative enervy of the "bad" card. Why? In this context, the time for her to be patient and passive was over. It was time to get active, mentally, and to get tough doing it if she had to. She was an extremely passive, avoids-confrontation kind of person, by her own admittance. This was asking almost the impossible of her, but it was for her and her children's welfare that she do so. That situation came to mind when I read your post, and so I thought I'd throw it in. To me, it taught me that there are shades of context that must color every card ... just like others above have already said as well. In the moment of the reading, it challenged me though. I had to really try and put aside my connotations of "good" and "bad" in order to get the message across.

WolfSpirit	02 Apr 2003
Alissa, I think that this is a good example that shows that all cards are not 100 % good or bad .... we all need a bit of everything at the right moment. finding the right degree or the right moment is often the problem I think.

samantha	02 Apr 2003
Thanks for everybody's insights and examples : they helped alot and made me re-evaluate, which is even better ! I'm going to post the spread as a whole , so take a look if you are interested.

The Difficult/challenging cards in "positive" area of spread. thread was originally posted on 27 Mar 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.