How certain?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 31 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

spunch	31 Mar 2003
Recently I've purchased a book Tarot by Hali Morag. He writes about some "professional tips he gathered by well-known card-readers". So I just wanted to check whether you encountered some of these to be true in your readings: (The combination of two cards means that in the spread, the first card was revealed first, followed immediately by the second cards, when both tha cards are upright) 1. The Empress + Three of Cups = pregnancy 2. The Empress + The World = pregnancy 3. The Empress + Ace of Wands = pregnancy 4. The Empress + a Pisces card = pregnancy 5. The Death card does not predict death unless there are at least two cards from the following list in the spread as well: Judgement Day, Eight of Cups, Ace of Swords, Four of Swords, The Tower, The Wheel of Forutne, Ten of Swords 6. The Lovers + The Empress (or Three of Swords) = sexual infidelity 7. The Moon in reverse together with the Queen of cups (or Queen of Pentacles) = fertility problems 8. The Magician with any of the court cards in reverse = sexual problems 9. If on each side of The Lovers is a card from the Major Arcana with women on it, this testifies to sexual attraction to women, if the querent is a woman, and to men, if the querent is a man. 10. The Hermit with Strenght indicates a man who is dominated by his wife 8even when the querent is a woman) 11. The combination of The Tower with one of the Swords cards or with The Moon testifies to a medical problem suffered by either the querent or someone close to him 12. Ace of Cups + Six of Cups = a new beginning with someone from the past 13. Eight of Wands + Five of Pentacles = gambler 14. Eight of Wands + a card belonging to Sagittarius = a person who cannot be relied on 15. Ace of Cups + Ten of Cups = a wedding, a common residence, and the purchase of a home together 16. Nine of Pentacles + Ace of Pentacles = a win at gambling 17. Three of Cups + Four of Wands = a succesful pregnancy 18. The Hierophant + The Sun = a religious functionary... And so on. Please, write your comments. Could this be that certain and obvious? I know you have to take the other cards in a spread into consideration, but, let's say you are doing a two-cards spread. Would these interpretation count then?

Inana	31 Mar 2003
Im unexperienced, so i havent done enough readings to know if this combinations work. But i have to say i dont like this kind of formulas. I think every spread is different and the cards can tell things in very different ways and combinations. So i dont like to be tied or how to say it to any kind of pre-stablished combinations. In someway, from my point of view, it limits the freedom of the intuition.

spunch	31 Mar 2003
Well, since I am also a novice, I am open to any kind of suggestions. It might work for some people, taking into consideration their experience and inner voices, to be able to make such combinations with great certainty. Personally, I like seeing the Tarot as the PATH, not a DESTINY, so the above examples are just not good for me. But then, I posted them just to see whether there could be something in these combinations. I know one Tarot reader who doesn't speak, while reading the cards, of paths, possibilities, but does all sorts of 'certain' things. Yes, you will sell your house within three months, yes, your daughter will pass the exam, no, it's not the liver but the kidneys; no, you will not get your loan back... Could she be, well, how to put it, to 'narrow?'. Anyway, I want to believe that we all can choose. I think that's the beauty of living. But, nevertheless, please keep on commenting. I'm really courious.

Umbrae	31 Mar 2003
Author’s like to write books. They write to sell to make money. Some authors have a habit of expanding their ego's by stating opinion as fact. This is then passed on to readers, who take an opinion based on an ego with need, and pass it on to others. This book looks like a perfect thing to carry in your backpack when heading off into the woods…you may need firestarter. Meanings are not set in stone (that's the problem with books, the writer attempts to lock meaning into their world-view). A lot gets determined by the content and quality of that which passes between the sitter and the reader. Remember as we learn to read tarot, that books stress the card meanings…this means this and that means that. Spreads tend to have lovely ‘this means this and that means that places for the cards to go’. Neither spreads nor meanings are not static. Even a three card spread is not a static ‘thing’. Time should be spent learning the three card spread, in order to learn ‘how cards relate to each other’. You cannot learn this in a book folks, you have to read…a lot. You can ask others for their advice and opinions, but the only thing that counts in your readings, is your own advice, opinions, and knowledge. So have some faith in yourself, and learn by doing… The other issue is – with every book I’ve ever read…the ‘reading advice’ contains no ‘context’ with the sitter’s life. This book in question says : 1. The Empress + Three of Cups = pregnancy 2. The Empress + The World = pregnancy 3. The Empress + Ace of Wands = pregnancy 4. The Empress + a Pisces card = pregnancy An Empress + (any other card) will never mean pregnancy if there is (1) no working plumbing (read post-hysterectomy), or (2) no sexual intercourse. Such writing is irresponsible. …and folks wonder why I advocate burning ‘some’ books. Hali Morag…if you’re out there we need to talk! Divinerguy once said, “Tarot readers are not potted plants. You are there for a reason --- to interpret the cards. Listen to your feelings, but don't abandon reason. It sounds contradictory, but its not. It requires a combination of openess and a little discipline.”

Khatruman	31 Mar 2003
Well, you need not read any more advice beyond Umbrae's there!!! All I will add is that I understand that when one is a novice in any study, one has a tendency to look for hard and fast rules to latch onto, generalizations that will speed up the learning process. True learning always takes time, and hard/fast rules, if adhered to religiously, may indeed blind one to many layers of possibility. Stay open with your mind and your feelings, and be confident that the more you listen to, both inside and out, the more you will truly learn. Peace

spunch	01 Apr 2003
My thoughts exactly. As I mentioned before, I believe in CHOICES. I believe we should use the Tarot as a 'problem solver', as a, well, if you want, meditation tool wihich will help us on our way of understanding ourselves and people around us better. This is why I started a study group - Journal entries - for beginners, to try to learn the Tarot in a propper way. To seek the meanings from within, to try to find all the possibilities a card can offer in a particular moment. But it's a good thing I read that book. It's been advertised as the 'ultimate full color guide' and yes, it does look nice but I think that's all. As a beginner, who could be mislead by all sorts of interpretations, I managed to recognize best way to learn the tarot, the way described on this forum. Again, keep on commenting. Maybe this is a good place to tell us beginners why book-reading (especially this kind of book) is not such a good way to start learning the tarot.

magpie9	01 Apr 2003
I think THAT book is burnable! Good for you to catch on to it so quick :) Formulas look like multiplication, but Tarot reading is more like Algebra...there's a whole lot going on. :D It's best, I believe, to learn the cards from the cards as much as possible...but we're human, and we are taught our whole lives that a primary place to learn is from books. It's very hard to resist the temptation that "formula" books hold for us curious humans. So, if you're going to be reading books, my advice as a long-time reader is to look for books that help you develop your intuition, and help you see the wide range of possibilities in each card, and the as a whole. Also, the small spreads, like 3 card spread are a lot better, I think, for accuracy and focus and learning than the big ones like the "celtic cross." Keep in mind that your deck is your partner in learning to read. I'm not saying it's alive, or a being, or a concious entity, but somehow, if you are clear with it as to what you want and expect, it will adjust to your growing knowledge, and help you to learn tarot, bit by bit. Oh dear, it's late, and I probably sound quite crazed...but good luck and good progress to you..and happy journaling. :)

Aerin	01 Apr 2003
Personally, I'm with the view that says 'beware of formulae'. Any book that I pick up that has such formulae, I don't ever ever buy. There are, however, plenty of books on the market where the authors DO NOT use formulae. For example, Mary Greer, Rachel Pollack, Joan Bunning: I'm not aware of seeing any formulaic approaches in their work. All of them encourage you to develop your own intuition. Aerin

NeXoRiouS	02 Apr 2003
hmmm...cool...wonder if it really works...hehe

Bryher	02 Apr 2003
I couldn't agree more that a formulaic response to tarot is a dangerous one - it kills intuition. For example, the death prediction theory - by this formula the appearance of Death, the Wheel of Fortune and the Tower would predict a death -to my mind this would indicate a radical change hinting at new beginnings in the querents life. I think it's so wrong to take cards like death and the hanged man so literaly - some people seem to take tarot as a simple divination tool rather than an aid to getting in touch with your inner self.

wolfen045	02 Apr 2003
I think the author of that book is doing his/her readers a disservice. Tarot should be fluid and flexible. Card meanings are not set in stone. The tarot is a kind of symbolic alphabet. The more you look at it and explore it, the less you need book interprtations. I have a lot of books in my tarot library and to be honest I have only really ever used a handful of the information i gained from them. I agree with the others ; rely on your intuition. The more you use your cards, the stronger your intuition will become. I have been doing tarot for about 15 years and I am still learning! Blessings ,wolfen

The How certain? thread was originally posted on 31 Mar 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.