Three of Cups: comparing meanings: Thoth versus RWS and others

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	05 Mar 2003
Crowley calls this card Abundance. This matches well with the RWS picture of 3 graces dancing, glasses raised in time of harvest. "The Three of Cups indicates joy, celebration, sharing of the wonder in life" writes Rachel Pollack in 78DW; while Crowley says it is "fulifilment of the Will of Love in abounding joy.. the spiritual basis of fertility". However, unless I am missing something in RW, Crowley gives the card much richer interpretive possibilities, Citing the influence of Mercury in this card, he reminds us that Mercury was the messenger of the Gods to the underworld. Furthermore, the Card in Thoth Deck depicts, as Crowley writes, three pomengranates, filled to overflowing from one lotus blossom above. They ride over the calm dark sea of Binah. He calls this the card of Persephone, and goes on to remind us the pomegranate is the fruit which Pluto/Hades used to magically bind her to the underworld. Therefore, while the Thoth card carries the same meaning as the RWS card on the surface, it also includes a darker meaning, suggesting that pleasure has the power to drag us down (to the shadowy realms) or in Crowley's words: " The lesson seems to be that the good things of life, although enjoyed, should be distrusted." I am interested to know all the different ways in which you interpret the three of cups in readings, no matter what deck you use.

jmd	05 Mar 2003
With the three of cups, the key words I may use are 'communication from the heart'. This may imply any of the following (and others not listed): the need to talk about the emotional component of the situation; speak what needs to be said with feeling; take emotions (of yourself and others) into considerations before making any decisions and communicating these; love what you say - or don't say it; unveil your heart to others. Of course, in an actual reading, other aspects may emerge as more significant, irrespective of the deck: a leaf may seem, for example, to be either unfolding/opening or, conversely, constricting. This has to be given even more weight, in my opinion, then what I wrote above.

Pollux	05 Mar 2003
Mh... Very quickly cus I am running out of online time I wanna sat the girls always reminded me of the Graces. Look at Botticelli's painting if you can! :) As for the meaning, I always thought of the 3 of Cups in marseille decks as the first stage of an accomplishement, you are not entirely done with something but you have been working on it for a while and in the right way and with good results. Not that I expect you to understand... *lol* But that's the way I used to look at it when I read with the Marseille. .... . ... ^ ... . ... | ... . The Three is the (first *LOL*) perfect number. Now I am using the World Spirit, and its three depicts the Triple Goddess. It makes me think more of cicles, and shape shifting, the joy traditionally associated is the one coming from the realisation that we all belong to the Spiral of Rebirth and it is made of pure love! *corny*

Karenwhe	05 Mar 2003
In addition to the above descriptions Three of Cups is about networking and support from your network (friend, family, acquaintances etc., etc.).

lupo138	06 Mar 2003
and it is about a relationship between three persons - mostly a pair and that the third one would like to change it that way, that he/she would form a pair with one of them.

Diana	06 Mar 2003
Diana stares at her 3 of Cups in her Marseilles deck. (Macavity: time to take out your 3 of Cups please :D ). And I remember the time when my husband and I were going through a bad period in our marriage and wondered if there was a way out apart from leaving each other. We were stuck and there seemed no way we could reconcile our differences, solve our problems. So I made an appointment with a counsellor and off we went. My husband and I are the two Cups at the bottom of my card, and the counsellor is the Cup on the top. As the Cup is by itself at the top of the card, it reminds me of the Ace. After only two short meetings with the counsellor, our differences were solved and there was more understanding between the two of us than ever before. Those problems have never returned. Sometimes one needs a catalyst - a third person - to make things right again. Where before there was only a promise of harmony, here is the realisation of it. There is a lot of love in this card. If it's reversed, or read in its "negative" meaning...... :(

Sulis	06 Mar 2003
During my dad`s time in hospital a couple of weeks ago I got the 3 cups in almost every reading ( using World Spirit and Stone tarot). I took the card quite literally to mean the support which my Mum , my sister and myself were giving to each other. Sometime it`s just a case of `saying what you see`. Love and light Crystalmynx xx

firemaiden	06 Mar 2003
Hmmm, this is really fun! Thanks, all of you what interesting visions. Now, where is that cat with the Marseilles deck, hiding under the table? :D

Macavity	06 Mar 2003
Asleep under the table - Grrrr. Well, Yeah - it's about mediation... but then I took the liberty of reading Diana's post first! Heheh :D OTOH: A schematic of female uhm "reproduction" (blush) - reinforced by the relationship with the Empress' fertility and childbearing associations? (Hmmm: Some people see sex in everything!) But I can "make stuff up" too? Can't everyone? Which brings me to my question: Wouldn't everyone's version be different? ;) AND... Would ANY of this be accurate? Y'see Macavity is (basically) an honest little CAT (and an "ITSJ" to boot!) so does worry about such things. And even more so in contemplating the Marseille Wands and Swords minors... which all look so darn SIMILAR! }) Today's reading is taken from the Book of Pollack, Part III, Introduction: "A reader who trusts feelings can be lead away from the truth as well as towards it. But there is another reason we should work with the traditional meaning belonging to images. If we do not use the traditional wisdom others have put into the cards, then we deprive ourselves of their knowledge and experience." Amen Sister! (Now someone is going to ask about traditional meanings? :D) Macavity P.S. Comparisons between the Crowley Thoth and Marseille are indeed more interesting than I had anticipated. How similar the "arrangements" in the minors often are? Except perhaps where Mr. C. had a specific "occult" or Caballistic allusion to make? Makes ya wonder... ;)

Alex	06 Mar 2003
Something in this card brings to my mind, very strongly, the idea of a harvest cellebration. We're a bit distanced from this sort of thing, we just go to the supermarket. But the a "harvest cellebration", I think represents the emotional context very well, and is represented in decks you've mentioned. I watched a movie recently, "Dancing in Lughasa" that has a "Three of Cups" scene. Very beautiful. Light spirit, summer, food, women dancing. No worries. But there is a reminder, somewhere, that winter is ahead. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden I am interested to know all the different ways in which you interpret the three of cups in readings, no matter what deck you use.

Aoife	07 Mar 2003
Whilst I entirely agree or have learned from all that has been said before, my main reading deck [hudes] suggests to me a different slant [and different from than that suggested by leah samul in the accompanying book]. Two of the three women in the card may be looking at one another - and if they are, it's with an air of cool appraisal.... or maybe suspicion. Whilst they may seem to be looking at one another it's equally possible that they're looking through or just beyond - seemingly connected but in fact a million miles away. The third woman looks away - turned away not only from the two other women but also her hand holding up her cup. All three have their cups raised in celebratory gesture but I wonder if they are celebrating different things, maybe their own individual achievements rather than that of the collective. All three seem preoccupied with their own thoughts/ needs/ desires and there's a sense of disconnection. The scene reminds me very much of 'staged parties' e.g the launch of a product or a company party. On the face of it there's a coming together in celebration but behind the mask lie other motives and agendas. That's why I like the 'networking' metaphor that Karnewhe suggests. It reminds me of those 'cut-throat' events where everyone is being superficially 'nice' but everyone knows that each is manoeuvring for position, maximum advantage.

firemaiden	07 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Alex Light spirit, summer, food, women dancing. No worries. But there is a reminder, somewhere, that winter is ahead. Yes Alex, I think this is what Crowley meant, in saying this is Persephone's card, and with the pomegranates -- that here is the time of abundance, of feasting and harvest, (yes harvest is importantly linked to this card), but she will need to return to the underworld eventually, meaning that winter comes. Quote: Originally posted by Aoife It reminds me of those 'cut-throat' events where everyone is being superficially 'nice' but everyone knows that each is manoeuvring for position, maximum advantage. This is pretty dark Aoife, isn't it. As one who rather despises get-togethers larger than three, I can't disagree for the networking events, but I do enjoy festivities with just three. I am now remembering my little story about the three of cups. Also, it is usually portrayed as three woman, (three graces, or the three phases of the moon - triple goddess) (I think both are suggested by the RWS), rather than man, woman, and child. There is something particularly special about the combined forces of three women. My mother has a group of white-haired ladies to play chamber music with. When she organized her ladies to do my sisters wedding, we got garlands, bouquets, and corsages of flowers in abundance, music composed and played, and many other powerful things. I began to refer to my mothers company of white-haired ladies as her Mafia: The Ladies Mafia. When things upset my mother, for example: injustice to her daughters (me not getting the part I want in an opera for example), to make her happy, they would talk of poisoning the director together. ALL IN FUN OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is even something magical about it being three ladies, suggesting not just the Three Muses, who sing and dance, but also the Three Fates, -- three very powerful sisters, since they are weaving the story of our lives! Yes, three ladies together can weild a sort of underground and hidden power, subversive like a Mafia, and which seems somehow magical. Then there is also that sense of glee. I have often felt such glee when in a bond of three ladies. It is almost a wicked glee, the kind of delight one feels in being able to bond together against?...or underneath? the world of men.

firemaiden	07 Mar 2003
This is looking a bit like the Firemaiden forum, sorry! Well, what I wanted to say was: clears throat, the reason I have brought you all here today, was actually rather pointed, yes, I wanted to discover, ahem, whether, from your interpretations and understandings of the card, that I might have the Moral Authority to place a Toad underneath the wedding cake in the 3 of cups that I am currenly working on. You will say, I suppose, that it depends upon whether it is a Warty Toad, or a Green Frog. Actually, he is beginning life as a Green Frog...

firemaiden	07 Mar 2003
SORRY Macavity! But thanks for taking the trouble to wake up and stretch. Quote: A schematic of female uhm "reproduction" (blush) - reinforced by the relationship with the Empress' fertility and childbearing associations? (Hmmm: Some people see sex in everything!) Thank you! Thank goodness I am not the only one! (What does Diana say?) Quote: But I can "make stuff up" too? Can't everyone? Which brings me to my question: Wouldn't everyone's version be different ? ;) AND... Would ANY of this be accurate? Well, doesn't everyone? I guess it would only be accurate that day when it occured to you, because the person was sitting in front of you--that is, if we are doing readings the intuitive way. (Why would the reading borrowed from its prescribed page in a book have anymore authority? What makes a reading accurate anyway? ) Quote: Today's reading is taken from the Book of Pollack, Part III, Introduction: The Book of Pollack. Aha, it has gotten to that, has it? Which translation, from the Hebrew or the original Sanscrit? A coupla queshuns: what are OTOH and ITSJ? "On the other hand?" Okay, that makes sense, and ITSJ? hmmm, temporomandibular joint disorder?

Macavity	07 Mar 2003
The cards that get away from the Three (symmetrical) girls (just wanna have fun?) are interesting. The Marseille has considerable assymetry in one sense - So does my (becoming) favourite Barrett's Ancient Egyptian Tarot. It's CB's most "girly" card (in "Playboy" sense?) But he's definitely a Thoth-ite - So, abundance of... Young women perhaps? :D Yet his book "meaning" starts off "Happiness, marriage... a birth. For some reason the RWS ladies make me think of Nordic "Oestre"(?) fertility rites too - Quite why I have no idea... Macavity P.S. I wanna see if the upload works too ;)

firemaiden	07 Mar 2003
Thanks Macavity, that is actually rather hilarious. Yes, indeed, abundance of pretty naked girls. :D I love it.

The Three of Cups: comparing meanings: Thoth versus RWS and others thread was originally posted on 05 Mar 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.