Astrological aspect in cards?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Nao	24 Apr 2003
Hi everyone, Often times, I'll come across a comment that refers to the astrological sign or the astrological correspondences in cards...so my question is, how do you know what they are? Is it a fixed universal thing? Does anyone know of a site that has a chart on it or talks about the astrological aspects in Tarot cards? I've heard that the 2 of Swords is Moon in Libra, etc. Or which zodiac sign rules which cards...etc. I've never paid much attention to them, but lately I'm starting to be more interested towards that aspect and would like to find more information on them. Any help at all is appreciated! =) Thanks!

NeXoRiouS	24 Apr 2003
I ignored this fact as I don't know about it too. lol. Go to http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib78.html Though I'm not sure what you wanted to know, but I hope these information are sufficient to satisfy your greed for knowledge. :)

Nao	24 Apr 2003
heh..wow..hmm...i'm going to have to spend some time to look through that page carefully. ^_^;; hopefully, i won't get confused with them. thanks for the link! =)

Rusty Neon	26 Apr 2003
Also, here's a site that might help: http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/03astrology.htm

jmd	26 Apr 2003
Nao's original post asks, apart from general information on astrological corresponces, whether these are 'a fixed universal thing'. To this question, I will reply definitely no! There are numerous astrological correlations which various interpreters have made - some which arise out an overall system from which the whole is understood, others which seem to arise out of peculiar insights into individual cards and an independent understanding of astrology. It is certainly worth looking at what the GD or other groups or individuals have done with regards to these correlations, but probably, in my view, even more important to understand how and why they may have arrived at such, for from such a position one may properly discern the correlations' deeper attributions.

Laurel	27 Apr 2003
One thing to add to JMD's post (which I agree wholeheartedly with) is that some deck offers have built astrological correspondences into imagery of cards- the Crowley-Harris Thoth deck is a big example. Doesn't mean they are right in a broader sense, just that there are specifically intended correspondences, some of the reasons of which are addressed in Crowley's writings, here and there. ~Laurel

Rusty Neon	27 Apr 2003
As jmd and laurel have indicated, the GD's system is not the only system of astrological correspondences. One alternative and simple system is the one devised by Robert Wang in the _Tarot Psychology_ for his _Jungian Tarot_ deck. Wang's system is just for the pip cards and court cards. Wang assigns the Sun, Moon and planets (other than Earth) to the Sephiroth (Qabalah) and hence to the Ace to Ten, and assigns astrological signs to the suits: Aries (Wands), Cancer (Cups), Libra (Swords) and Capricorn (Pentacles). Thus, for example, the 2 of Cups is Uranus in Cancer. For the court cards, Wang has additional rules for assigning astrological correspondences. This yields divinatory meanings that are different from the GD/RWS DMs.

lunalafey	27 Apr 2003
you might want to also check out the book "Tarot for Yourself" by Mary K. Greer. She gives planets & signs to the majors (common associations) and planets IN signs for A-10...then she has some elemental thing going for the courts which I don't quite get yet. The majors and associations make quite a bit of sense, for example; the Empress is a beautiful loving woman, her planet is Venus, the planet of love & beauty. (I can not say about the other decks mentioned) I dove into astrology prior to finding out that it's in the cards, made connecting astrology in the cards easier. I also found that the majors I had trouble grasping, now became more clear because of the nature of the sign/planet. Even thought I read cards for years before I even knew there was an astrological tie to cards and even though it has changed my way of reading, I still do not always look to the astrological in every reading

Nao	01 May 2003
Thanks for all the additional info you guys gave me in helping me understand the astrological aspect in cards. I did some more research based on a lot of what was mentioned here...and yes, I definitely learned that they're not a "fixed universal thing." In fact, there are quite a few variations of the astrological association in cards...it's getting me all mixed up. (arghs) I have another question...usually when someone follows a 'system'...do they follow it through and through? Eh...I think I didn't phrase that very well. I guess I'm curious about the flexibility of these associations? By the way, do a lot of you pay attention to the astrological aspect in cards? Do you use them to further understand/read your cards or even use it for timing and identifying people? If so...how are your results and experience with them?

littleneptune	01 May 2003
Nao--I totally understand why you feel mixed up. As an astrologer primarily, I have quite a bit of difficulty with the associations I read for certain cards. Many of them have very little connection to the astrological principles I know. Although I'm sure there are others who find the associations helpful, I personally don't recommend emphasizing this aspect of tarot. They are very different systems which appear to be mixed together in tarot in a rather haphazard way! In fact, I'm considering creating my own deck based on astrology, in order to keep my astrological facts separate from the tarot teachings... In terms of following a 'system' I have been grappling with the same question recently. I've been trying to fit other authors systems to the cards, with the result that I feel I have lost connection with the card entirely. For this reason, I am considering moving to a non-illustrated deck, or, as I mentioned, creating my own. The originators of decks created THEIR decks to fit their own understanding. I think a deck or system is only useful if YOU can connect to it.

littleneptune	01 May 2003
(sorry, when I said non-illustrated deck I meant a deck with non-illustrated pip cards).

jmd	02 May 2003
Instead of of getting a deck with non-illustrated pip cards, why not consider a Marseilles? The pips are fully illustrated with both the appropriate number of suits, and numerous floral accoutrements embellishes each card... but no scenes ŕ la Sola Busca or Colman-Smith detract... (couldn't restrain from the comment - please take it with a smile :))

littleneptune	02 May 2003
jmd--how does one read meaning into the floral designs?

Minderwiz	02 May 2003
Coming back to systems I think systems help a lot when you are learning and provide the necessary structure for a rather hesitant reader (like me). As you get used to the cards, 'see' the patterns and make mental connections then you know when to bend your own rules. No system is perfect and the good reader uses their intuition as well as their basic card appreciation. On Astrological correspondences - I thing the best way to view them is purely as analogies at best. Coming from Astrology to Tarot I actually found it made it worse to try and work on correspondences because things didn't seem to fit properly. Thinking that a card is 'rather like' some Astrological relationship may be more helpful - what the relationship is really depends on you, your view of the card and your view of Astrology.

Rusty Neon	02 May 2003
Hi all ... There's a recent article by Mick Frankel in the Tarot Association of the British Isles (TABI) Spring 2003 newsletter on Book T pip card astrological correspondences. You may find it starting at page 15 of the newsletter at: http://www.tabi.org.uk/newsletter/TABINews-Spring2003.pdf He attempts to fit the Book T astrological correspondences into common RWS/GD divinatory meanings. Robert Wang also tried something along these lines in the book _The Qabalistic Tarot_.

LittleWing	03 May 2003
well i also study astrology - and i at first tried to integrate this into my tarot reading - but it got too confusing- and i found i lost meaning from one or the other. i do apply certain aspects but only to the major arcana, and only the elements to the minors - eg- the power of the firey sagg, aries and leo to the wands. i leave it quite loose and it it a personnal thing rather than something i have followed. i do find the idea of a pure astrological tarot deck very appealing!! with beautiful venus and dreamy neptune!

littleneptune	03 May 2003
LittleWing--there's a discussion about creating an astrology tarot deck in the astrology section called "Thinking Stars and Cards"...maybe you have some ideas??

LittleWing	03 May 2003
i will take a look littleneptune - pleased to meet you

The Astrological aspect in cards? thread was originally posted on 24 Apr 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.