Question on time frames

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

freakybabe	13 Apr 2003
Ok Heres my first question here: When your reading cards how can you tell a time frame in which the spread is.For example I read for people at work for practice and they often ask When or How long,etc.Is there a answer to this? Thanks.

Dragons_Wing	13 Apr 2003
usually when i am asking a question, or reading for someone i tell them to put it into a time frame. such as "how is my job going to be in the next 6 months?" otherwise i dont think that you can narrow it down to when...of course i'm new at this so i could be wrong :)

freakybabe	13 Apr 2003
Yes,that makes a whole lot of sense.Thank you.

HudsonGray	13 Apr 2003
I've found that most things are in a less than 6 month framework (unless you're doing a yearly spread). If they know the actions & suggestions to take, then they'd be altering the results within that time frame. But like Dragons Wing says, you can just put the time frame into the question, for clarification's sake.

Thirteen	14 Apr 2003
Generally speaking, the timeframe for a spread is within 30 days. Unless you're doing a Year spread (12 cards laid out, one for each month to come in the year), then a spread isn't going to extend that far ahead in time. At least, that's what I've found in my experience, and if you think about it, it makes sense. A lot can change in a month--let alone six. The only book, by the way, that I've read which gives particular times to particular cards is *Tarot in Ten Minutes*--and while I'm not sure I agree with much of the book, I do like rather like this way of telling time. Here's what *Tarot in Ten Minutes* by R. T. Kaser says: If a person wants to know WHEN something in particular will happen, you remove cards 1-10 of the Majors. Shuffle, and pull out a random card. The answer is "By the--": Magician: New Moon HPS: Crescent Moon Empress: Full Moon Emperor: Quarter Moon Hierophant: Winter Solstice Lovers: Spring Equinox Chariot: Summer Solstice Strength/Justice: Fall Equinox Hermit: A matter of days Wheel: Within the year

jamesriouxctm	14 Apr 2003
freakybabe, I've done some research into using the interactions of numbers, elemental energies and astrological correspondences to get fairly useful information about time frames. It may be more advanced than what you are looking for, but just in case, here is an article I have written on the subject: http://jamesriouxctm.tripod.com/tarot/articles/tech4.html

Trogon	14 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by freakybabe When your reading cards how can you tell a time frame in which the spread is.For example I read for people at work for practice and they often ask When or How long,etc.Is there a answer to this? Thanks. Hi freakybabe! Welcome to Aeclectic! Good to see another Arizonan in here! For the most part, I also have found that framing the question in a particular time frame, as mentioned by Dragons_Wing, HudsonGray, et. al., is usually the best way for me too. However, when I'm doing a "simple" past-present-future type reading, I have a general rule-of-thumb for the time frame: 3-card - about 1 week into past and future. 5-card - positions 1 & 5 no more than about 1 month past & future (up to 3 weeks most often). 7-card - positions 1 & 7 up to 3 to 6 months. You can see my 5-card PPF at; http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12875 Mine is the 2nd reply. I find that when I'm using the Celtic Cross layout (which I don't use all that often), the past & future positions are variable and I either have to put the time frame in mind before the reading, or use my intuition to determine the time frame. I've found that the former works fairly well, the latter is getting more reliable the more readings I do.

Major Tom	14 Apr 2003
In her Tarot - A New Handbook for the Apprentice, Eileen Connolly has entire chapter titled Esoteric Time Cards. It's really quite a complicated system she describes finding timing cards in a 10 card Celtic Cross spread. Part of her systems uses the Aces as season cards: Ace of Cups = Spring Ace Of Wands = Summer Ace of Swords = Autumn Ace of Pentacles = Winter She combines what she calls the Personal Life Cycle (looks a lot like a Year card to me) combined with a season card and the number of the card in the 10th position of the Celtic Cross to determine a very precise date. It all seems too complicated to me so I've never tried it to see if it works. :laugh:

Astraea	14 Apr 2003
There's also a new book entitled Time Tarot by Alarnah Tobin-Gray and Llyle Wentworth, published in paperback by Simon and Schuster. I have seen the book in a store, but have not purchased it yet, so I can't say whether or not it is credible. Here's a link to the authors' website: http://www.geocities.com/llylebear/Time_Tarot

celeste	14 Apr 2003
I just go by the numbers on the cards themselves,such as XX is 20 months,the 4 of swords is 4 months,the 6 swords 6 months, ect,ect. It sounds simplistic, but it seems to work for me.

freakybabe	14 Apr 2003
I want to thank everyone who replied.Wow I got some great info.You guys are great!Thanks again. freakybabe ps.Glad to see another "Arizonan"

Rusty Neon	15 Apr 2003
Check out http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/timing.htm

Rusty Neon	15 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen Generally speaking, the timeframe for a spread is within 30 days. Unless you're doing a Year spread (12 cards laid out, one for each month to come in the year), then a spread isn't going to extend that far ahead in time. Query whether the time period could even be longer than 12 months for spreads, e.g., if you do a spread to cover Years 1, 2, 3 and 4 of a querent's university degree time.

Trogon	15 Apr 2003
In the realm of determining the time-frame of a spread using one's intuition... I did an interesting spread a couple of hours ago. Using my Haindl Tarot, I did a 5-card PPF layout... and as I started studying the spread I got this "wow - this goes waaaay back" feeling for the "past" and "recent past" positions. And it turned out to be so... the querrent is around 40-ish and this went clear back to her childhood... the "recent past" card was very strongly related to a major incident in her life (and her feelings stemming from it) from 2 years ago. But, when I went to the "near future" and "future" cards, I'm going... these are advice cards for the upcoming weeks. So, in this particular reading, the timing was very slanted to the past... Just thought this might be of interest to the discussion...

Shanticrow	04 Sep 2003
I use the numbers on the cards as well. With minor arcana numbers I break them into weeks or days depending on what my intuition tells me. They usually end up being weeks. And with Major arcana I break them into months or years. Usually being months. I have found this to be simple and very reliable

dadsnook2000	04 Sep 2003
Here is another book that specifically addresses time and links each card to a particular time frame; "Time Tarot" by Alarnah Tobin-Gray and Llyle Wentworth published recently in Australia by Simon & Schuster. Some cards are for specific short periods of time within the year -- about 10 days or so. (These seem to be linked to decants of astrological sun-sign dates). Other cards cover a month or so, some a quarter year season. Specific spread placement is used to determine which card is the timing card. Dave.

Umbrae	05 Sep 2003
Time, time, time… The Norse-Teutonic folks of ancient Europe had a different concept of time. A modern day consists of 24 hours, punctuated by day and night. The Teutonic-Norse concept contained therein was two ‘days’. One period occurring between sunup until sundown, and a second day occurring from sundown until sunup. The Norse thought of distance and time in terms of moving people between two points. The principal unit of measure was how far you could ride, which of course varied depending on the land, and time of year. Therefore, space-time is relative. Time is a concept. It is a human construct to which we assign a prime importance in our lives. Someone once said that time was invented so that everything would not happen at once. Tarot time. You cannot ask the cards, “When.” Even worse - try to tell them (the tarot) by imposing your criterea upon them. Through use, you will learn their idea of when. My times vary just a tad depending on which deck I use…kind of like you speak differently with different friends. Something I had to get used to. How it works for you is something you will have to learn. Also, sometimes the cards are telling you exactly the ‘what and when’ of an event…but it’s tough to be objective about your subjective life-view. It’s difficult to see what you are looking at, especially when it may not be what you expected to see. Once I heard of a teacher who taught, that if you were using a Celtic Cross spread, the Ace of Wands would be equal to June 1st. This person had the whole calendar figured out in the cards. Now I’m not saying that it was wrong. But I am saying, it may have worked just fine and dandy for them... Here is the deal with timing… I have never met two people with the same personal time, and there is only one way to find your ‘personal time’. And that is 'Journaling'. One of the benefits of keeping a journal is that you are learning your own system and concept of time. Timings set by cards will always be wishy washy, and over-ridden by your personal time. As you learn and grow, you will find things tend to shift. The other key to keeping a journal is that when you have major life-changes; your timing system may change. My timing has changed drastically in the last two years, and I’m still coming to terms with that aspect of my own readings…hey…I’m human. I now have to add extra time to my readings. Should you use a static timing system, the old this means this, and that means that, you will discover that it is too rigid. I have found that timing is more loosey goosey than other aspect. There are so many variables involved not only for you to be ready for an event, but also, perhaps the event will not occur until you are ready for it.

Bosorka	24 Sep 2003
I just wonder. How can I ask question when will something happen, if I more wish that it´ll really happen. By the way, how can I realize, that cards are saying "never"?

nexyjo	24 Sep 2003
in large part, i tend to agree with umbrae, though i take it even further. i like to think that the tarot operates outside the concept of time. because of our perspectives, we tend to see time as linear and regular, and i'm not sure that time is really that way in its essence, as umbrae points out. i also see a spread or reading as a snap-shot, a frozen moment of time. this, of course, is not possible if time is seen as fluid, or even as linear and regular. snap-shots are a human construct of a moment in time that really doesn't exist by itself. a snap-shot is a part of a whole, and care should be taken in seeing it as something whole in and of itself. i don't like the complex timing structures that are suggested in the variety of articles and comments in previous posts. i think that the universe isn't complex - it's just us who don't quite understand, and try to apply ever increasingly complex formulae to force reality into something understandable. i think that framing the timing in the question is the best option. though from a personal perspective, i never allow specific timing to enter into a reading - i think that forces an interpretation into an impossibility.

Thirteen	24 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Bosorka How can I ask question when will something happen, if I more wish that it´ll really happen. By the way, how can I realize, that cards are saying "never"? Um, well you don't ask that question ;) You don't say, "When will I find love?" or, "When will I become famous?"--because those are pretty vague questions with many possible answers. instead, what you want to to do is lay out a spread that examines your career or your love life. If the spread says, "Your love life isn't so good now, but hang in there, you're going to meet someone special," THAT's when you ask, "When?" And that's when you either pull a new card (a "time card") or see if the spread gives you some clues as to when. Does that help answer your question? You look for the time, for when it will happen, AFTER you have an idea of what might happen--or if you're waiting for something that you KNOW is going to come eventually, like a package in the mail.

dadsnook2000	24 Sep 2003
Although I have asked the "time" question myself (haven't we all) I've found my best answer in a book called Tarot And Psychology by Arthur Rosengarten. He notes that linear time -- the calendar or the clock -- is artificial. A time line or period includes a lot of events that are unrelated to the primary event (or group of events) that concerns a querent. On another list I had noted an example of a possible wedding being in someone's future. Prior to the wedding there had to be planning, an engagement, a time of friendship, a first meeting, etc. When the cards tell or show us a possible outcome, that outcome is dependent upon several associated events that will likely preceed it. To the extent that the cards suggest this process (or portions of it), anyone with life expereince can appreciate some basic allocations of time which may have to pass for the several events or developments to come to fruition. In these cases, the cards might/do indicate time, but not linear time or a specific calendar date. Dave.

Bosorka	25 Sep 2003
Thanks for reply, Thirteen. Sometimes it´s hard to explain that to friends, who are willing to make "training" reading for them. I have another question on that topic. One my friend is pregnant now. Is there chance, that cards would tell when the child will be born? PS: Your Tarot basics made me finally underestand what my tarot books are trying to tell.

Thirteen	25 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Bosorka Is there chance, that cards would tell when the child will be born? They might. Ask the cards and see if they're willing to answer (I'd guess if you get the Fool card on this question that they're winking at you and tell you you're going to have to wait and see just like everyone else). Quote: PS: Your Tarot basics made me finally underestand what my tarot books are trying to tell. Thank you! That's very nice to hear.

The Question on time frames thread was originally posted on 13 Apr 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.