ten and nine of swords

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Dragons_Wing	07 Apr 2003
when ever i get these in a reading it kinda scares me. i feel v. uneasy about these cards. more so than the tower, death, or the devil. do my fears about these cards justified or am i just over reacting. :-/ they kinda weird me out cause i'm also v. drawn to them.

Richard	07 Apr 2003
Well, they're definitely not the brightest cards in the deck. But if you look at the Ten of Swords, there are some positive features; First, look at the sky - it's sunrise. The night was bad, but it will soon be dawn. Also, look at the man's hand. He's giving the Masonic mudra gesture, indicating "As above, so below." It's the same gesture given by the Heirophant...a blessing, and a symbol of eternal life. Things aren't as bad as they seem. In the Nine of Swords, there are fewer symbols on the card to indicate a renewal, but one could say that here the swords are not physcially on the same plane as the woman: they're in her imagination. While the man on the Ten of Swords has definitely been attacked, the woman here creates her own anguish. Does that help at all? I agree about being drawn to them, though...they're definitely two of the most arresting cards in the deck.

Rusty Neon	07 Apr 2003
The Swords suit can be about one's mental state. In the case of the 9 and 10 of Swords, this can be especially so. While Cruelty and Ruin are common keywords for the 9 and 10 of Swords, respectively, these cards can often represent just states of mind, rather than what may really be happening in the outside world. These cards can signal that it's important to examine what and how you're thinking.

Astraea	07 Apr 2003
I agree that these cards are often indicative of one's mental state, moreso than what is happening in the external world. I frequently drew the 8, 9 and 10 of Swords when I had health concerns about someone dear to me, and I was spending a lot of time on the phone with medical personnel. Not once did I receive actual bad news, or have something awful happen to my loved one, on the days I drew any of those cards -- I was just plenty worried. When you draw the 9 or 10 of Swords, it might be helpful for you to look inward and see where you need to bring the focus back to peace and centeredness. :)

Umbrae	07 Apr 2003
How about a nice cup of tea…? You know, when you are looking at a Waite – Coleman Smith clone, the wands, cups, and pentacles all have a nice numerological progression, that makes perfect, coherent sense – specific to each suit. Then you get to swords. Everything makes sense until you get past seven – and then you get death doom dismay and destruction…the logical order of a numerical progression has been thrown out the window. Let’s look at the ten…by itself a wonderful number! Completion of a cycle – and we get swords in the back. Completion means blood running out of 10 wounds? And folks wonder why I recommend burning books that perpetrate…never mind. Do you need a warm-up on your tea? It has been said that Tarot, is steeped in history – reaching back into the ages… Tarot cards had one set of meanings before Levi changed everything…and then Arthur Edward Waite came along and changed the meanings yet again…so when you pick up a book and read whatever the author wrote – you have to ask yourself, “Which school of thought was she/he following?” Pre or Post Waite? Now it’s my opinion (and it’s just an opinion, so don’t get twisted here), that post Waite is Ka-Ka. So is post Levi. I always ask folks to start anew…building on the historical pre-Levi ideals… The eight, nine, and ten, by themselves should not be ‘bad cards’. It’s what surrounds them that provides the meaning. The spaces between the cards often have more import than the cards themselves. Burn the books, buy a Marseilles deck… But that’s just me…

Dragons_Wing	07 Apr 2003
Thanks that helps alot, maybe during my readings i'll look on not just the negitive aspect of it but also the positive in them that i didn't see before. :)

Rusty Neon	08 Apr 2003
Hi Umbrae! Hi all! Umbrae: You know, when you are looking at a Waite – Coleman Smith clone, the wands, cups, and pentacles all have a nice numerological progression, that makes perfect, coherent sense – specific to each suit. **What about the 10 of Wands? Many querents would look at that picture and attach a negative meaning to it. Umbrae: Then you get to swords. Everything makes sense until you get past seven – and then you get death doom dismay and destruction…the logical order of a numerical progression has been thrown out the window. **The mind is a complicated thing. The mind and the inner mental world are always aflutter, worried, vexed. Even the person who seemingly has it all on the exterior can be all stressed up, bunched up. Such is the nature of mind, and the Swords suit illustrates this admirably. In a sense, one of the best of the small cards of the Swords suit is the 4 of Swords. At least, the mind is (temporarily) relaxed; a truce is in place. Umbrae: Tarot cards had one set of meanings before Levi changed everything…and then Arthur Edward Waite came along and changed the meanings yet again…so when you pick up a book and read whatever the author wrote – you have to ask yourself, “Which school of thought was she/he following?” Pre or Post Waite? Umbrae: Now it’s my opinion (and it’s just an opinion, so don’t get twisted here), that post Waite is Ka-Ka. So is post Levi. Umbrae: I always ask folks to start anew…building on the historical pre-Levi ideals… **You can't blame poor Mr. Levi entirely. The idea of the Swords suit as a suit of sorrow can also be traced to Italian cartomancy. Umbrae: The eight, nine, and ten, by themselves should not be ‘bad cards’. It’s what surrounds them that provides the meaning. The spaces between the cards often have more import than the cards themselves. **If you look at the Swords as 'state of mind' cards, rather than exterior 'bad stuff, the RWS Swords aren't really bad cards. Umbrae: Burn the books, buy a Marseilles deck… **Devil's advocacy in defence of the RWS: One of the nice things about RWS/GD meanings is that they form a common Minor Arcana language for tarotists. It's nice to have a lingua franca. If a tarotist talks of a 9 of Swords moment or of 5 of Wands competition, we can understand them to at least some extent, thanks to the RWS lingua franca. On the TdM front, there is little common ground between TdM tarotists as to what a given pip card signifies.

spirit dancer	04 Nov 2003
i am by far no expert but when these come up i look at the surrounding cards and try to get a feel about what the core of the matter in question. if the subject is personal, or emotional i feel they represent our mental state, devastated and feeling emotionally done in so to speak. unable to be hurt any more than we already are.giving up and admitting we are too tired to go on. i took a class in tarot where the teacher told us we didn't need any pictures at all on the decks, that it all came from inside us...how we feel and what the cards speak to us. i find that if my friend and i read the same cards we often vary in what the cards say to each of us. we percieve things from our own insights,i don't know if it is a plus when reading for yourself. one way of looking at it is who knows us better than ourselves or can we not see the forest for the trees, and just see what we hope to see?i also find that my state of mind when doing a self reading has a big effect on how the cards fall. ....only my thoughts..

skytwig	04 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae The eight, nine, and ten, by themselves should not be ‘bad cards’. It’s what surrounds them that provides the meaning. The spaces between the cards often have more import than the cards themselves. Burn the books, buy a Marseilles deck… Umbrae.... this whole post you wrote is absolutely brilliant, but I especially adored the above paragraph...... "the spaces between the cards".... oh, my soul lept at that..... Thank you, thank you! :)

tabbycat	04 Nov 2003
Had the Ten of Swords come up in a reading for someone and she was really spooked by it, so I've been thinking about the card. I like to think that the number cards in the Minors are like Star Trek movies - the even numbers are good, while the odd numbers aren't. The Tens are usually great cards, the zenith of the element of their suit, but this falls apart with Swords. I was using the Ancestral Path deck, which has a ninja along with the guy with ten swords in his back, and I wondered why I always identify with the victim in the card. If you turn the card on its head and consider it as the triumph of intellect and mind over ignorance, that makes much more sense as the conclusion of the suit of Swords. So, maybe your problems are the corpse on the ground and you've just skewered it - bang, bang, bang! - with the power of your mind and the skill of your arguments. Jilly

ros	19 Nov 2003
besides the obvious meanings of the 9 & 10 of swords I think that when a person is under pressure they listen but don't hear what your saying. Also most people lose focus when under stress & it makes the easiest things hard. e.g. when someone asks you who played in a movie, you've watched it 5 times but who stars in it. This is what I think the 9 & 10 are like. Sooner or later you remember. In these cards the stress is making you lose focus & in time you'll tune in again. It's all overpowering thoughts.

WalesWoman	26 Dec 2003
The image of all those swords in this person's back and the blood pooling beneath this fallen figure is definately enough to spook anyone. But after I read the description and DM by Joan Bunning at LearnTarot.com, I look at it much differently now. That we are making something seem much worse than it really is, that sometimes we are exaggerating our response to something that worries us or brings us down. It's sort of over kill of an idea or thought and the best part is, it's just about done. It's always darkest before the dawn of a new day, and the new day is almost there. It just feels like it's killing you, but you end up stronger for having survived the anguish. I myself had a nine of swords night last night, there is nothing threatening me, but I was feeling very emotional and couldn't express my feelings or thoughts and couldn't let them go either, so I tossed and turned, got up, went back to bed, tossed and turned somemore and resolved nothing what so ever, except that there was nothing I could do until the rest of the world woke up and then maybe find the answers to what I need to know. There is nothing like having unanswered questions to make a person nuts.

silverwitchi	27 Dec 2003
When I first started reading tarot cards it was for personal awareness. In the beginning my personal readings were all swords, upheaval and back flips. everyone around me was drawing, Empress cards, Star cards, how beautiful I look today cards. Well I most definatley have a relationship with the 9 and 10 of Swords. The 9 of Swords is about what goes on mentally, those ugly thoughts we can't put out of our minds, and just keeps our thoughts racing. When the sun comes up everything seems and is different after a 9 of Swords night. The 10 of Swords says to me alright, you can't hurt me anymore that's the end of the line, no more swords, 10 is all you have, well we can start back over again with the first sword, but I will see you coming and you can't stab me if I'm not here. Also in the 10 of Swords there's that pretty sunrise on the horizon, a dawn of a new day, that tells me it's over with the swords and there is a new dawn. So now when I draw the 9 or 10 of Swords I know what's bothering me and I can work threw it. I never did find the Swords so scary, I was more scared of the pretty cards!!! Just my thought!

Jewel-ry	28 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by silverwitchi The 10 of Swords says to me alright, you can't hurt me anymore that's the end of the line, no more swords, 10 is all you have, well we can start back over again with the first sword, but I will see you coming and you can't stab me if I'm not here. silverwitchi, I love the way you have put this. It puts it all into perspective doesnt it? Thank-you for sharing it. j :)

TemperanceAngel	28 Dec 2003
I always dread those cards coming up in peoples readings, most often it worries them. I like to look at the Ten of Swords as a positive card, being a ten, a completion. I think the swords aren't stabbing him in the back, but instead showing acceptance. His hand is held in the psychic position, showing he is ok. The Nine of Swords I think of as lack of sleep. lack of confidence, being hard on yourself. Sometimes it can be more serious, esp. concerning health issues, but don't let that alarm you, look at who is asking the question (health) and what other cards it is in combination with :) Hope this has been of some help :) XTAX

horoskope88	01 Jan 2004
Instead of thinking of the figure on the Ten of Swords as a person who has been brutally attacked...perhaps it's better to think of him (?) as someone who's being treated with "cosmic acupuncture" to release himself from past woes and difficulties.

Bean Feasa	02 Jan 2004
"cosmic acupuncture" - what an amazingly apt phrase horoskope88! I don't think I'll ever look at 10 swords again without thinking of it. It captures perfectly the kind of end-of-cycle, tough-but-salutary meaning I've been taking from this card, but couldn't quite find the words for. Thanks, and welcome, by the way, haven't seen you around before but will now be looking out for your posts! :) Blessings, Kate

FourLeafClover	05 Jan 2004
I have a certain fondness for the 9 of swords. I identify with it, as someone who does much of my agonizing at night. I don't see it as threatening. To me it says, "You have too much on your mind. Which of those swords can you put down for a while?" For me, it's a sign of "letting things get to me". Note that, in RWS, the swords are behind her and she wouldn't be hurt if a few of them fell down. I think it's a sign to sort through your "swords over your head" and figure out which ones are acutally sharp, and which ones you've dodged without noticing.

The ten and nine of swords thread was originally posted on 07 Apr 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.