what card might finally indicate a real change?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

quan_yin	05 Apr 2003
Hi, I've been reading for a friend who has been dating a lot of women off the internet. Some of you may remember my previous notes. This man has a rather strange idea of love. It's no wonder he's attracted what he has. I like him very much but in some ways, his attitude of what really matters in a relationship is rather limiting. At any rate, not much has changed for quite a while. I keep reading for him as he meets new women, and I keep seeing big "NOs" as far as the potential success of the people who he meets. I'm diplomatic as possible, when he asks. But he has not come to the realization that something bigger than "gee, I just haven't found the right woman" is going on. I would like to know what card I might look for to indicate that something has finally shifted in him. Is there a card that might indicate a true inner change on his part? Or is it likely that finally some special woman will show up and finally catalize a change, rather than him changing first? I just don't know. It's been the same-old pattern for a good year or so. No change in sight yet. Thanks.

Athara	05 Apr 2003
To me, Death significates change, although IMO it's a painful change. Still, it might be painful to him, changing his lifestyle, finding true love (love hurts!). You might want to look out for that card... Good luck! Love, Athara

Thirteen	05 Apr 2003
Change will only happen when this guy stops fooling himself--stops believing, like a gambling addict, that the next toss of the dice--the next girl on the internet--will be the one. In other words: if you're hoping to get a card that advises the fellow to change, you might, but that doesn't mean he'll accept the advice. All you can do for him is stop "soft-petaling" the truth. When it comes up NO in the cards, tell him "No." And don't try to be nice. You're doing him no favors if you tone down the message the cards are trying to give him. I'm guessing that this guy is going to need to get The Tower to change. Meaning he's going to have to have a really rude awakening to crack his rose-colored classes and makes him realize this ain't gonna work. When this card show up, you'll just have to tell the guy what's coming--and wait it out. He has to go through this in order to see the truth.

HudsonGray	05 Apr 2003
I wonder how he would feel if you offered to do a reading on what's keeping him from finding someone who wants to be with him long term. One of those where you ask questions like 'what's holding me back, what do I need to change, what do I need to be aware of, etc.' There's no guarantee that he'd listen, but at least it would give him some 'card' advice about what's not happening here. Getting it from the deck might be more beneficial than you just telling him to wise up and take a long look at himself through someone else's eyes.

quan_yin	05 Apr 2003
Thanks!! I should say that part of the problem with telling him what the cards say is that I have to bite my tongue in annoyance at his attitude. I'm not always able to hide my irritation at his ranking and decisionmaking on these women, based soley on a few factors (their beauty, their figure, their beauty, their "head-turner" factor, their "mother-potential," repeat ad nauseum) it is hard for me to stay neutral. I start getting mad despite my committment not to judge. He told me that emotional compatibilitly is not that important to him. Even I was shocked at that one... Also, sometimes he does not want to know what the cards say, so I respect his viewpoint. He just wants me to take notes on the readings but not tell him...YET. Strange, how when it's all over between him and her, THEN he wants to know what I saw. That I have been right does not make me feel too great. (He just thinks I am a good reader. I feel like saying WAKE UP.) Plus, I'm sort of afraid to be too direct with him. I'm afraid of upsetting him and losing a friend. There is a certain smugness to him sometimes, and I would rather not battle it out with him. Is it possible change will come from a special woman at some point? Should I look for a karmic connection, and then maybe the Tower? Guess I'm a total wimp that I'm afraid to be so honest. Hope no one else has this problem.

bec	05 Apr 2003
Agree with Thirteen, a Tower looks to be the needed card here. Though a Hanged Man might not be so crazy to get either.

Thirteen	06 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by quan_yin He told me that emotional compatibilitly is not that important to him. Even I was shocked at that one... He's lying. From what you describe, I would say his telling you all this, and asking for readings, is his way of maintaining his image of HIMSELF as someone who dates beautiful babes--and will one day wed that impossible perfect babe all guys want but only he, in his smug superiority, will find and get. Actors need an audience, and you're his audience. He puts on the same stage play each time, and you, by listening, keep it fresh and real for him. Definately the TOWER. It's either going to be a girl who brutally crushes that image he has of himself (turns the tables and tells him HE doesn't have what SHE is looking for)--or a girl who doesn't meet the criteria at all, but who he will fall for big time. At which point, all the criteria he's amassed and insisted on telling you ad nauseum about will go right out the window. Suddenly, her size, her head-turning ability, her mother potential, even her figure won't factor into it. And you're going to be left shaking your head saying to him, "But you said...." I like Hudson's idea of the question and answer spread, by the way. But it sounds to me like the best thing you can do, for your own sanity, is tell him "No more readings on your love-life, friend. The cards aren't interested." Stop giving him a sympathetic ear and he'll stop bending it. Quote: Plus, I'm sort of afraid to be too direct with him. I'm afraid of upsetting him and losing a friend. There is a certain smugness to him sometimes, and I would rather not battle it out with him. If being direct would so easily upset him, and likely end the friendship...how good a friend can he possibly be?

quan_yin	07 Apr 2003
Well, I asked him if he'd be interested in a reading on what is blocking him. His reaction was one of surprise. Clearly he hadn't thought of this. He said OK, but he was a little bit nervous. As I shuffled, the World fell out. I just knew this meant the woman of his dreams, etc. It's come up for him before, everytime he gets excited about a woman he meets. So I used it as a significator, and asked the cards "what does R have to change, in order to find a fulfilling relationship?" Would appreciate insight. This is what I got: 1. Issue: Knight of Swords 2. Hidden Factor: Knight of Earth 3. Obstacle: Ace of Wands (Rx) 4. Advice: King of Pent (Rx) 5. Outcome: The Magician No Tower, and only 1 Major. No cups, which suprised me as well. It feels like he needs is a new way of looking at things. The obstacle is still there and unrecognized (Ace of Wands). But I don't get a positive feeling out of the Magician. It feels slippery, full of seductive illusion and potential, and though he could make it, it might be just more creating stuff full of illusions. I have trouble with the Advice. Is this saying to focus more on his job? (He makes a lot). Or find an older man to talk to? I"m drawing a blank. I will say that King of Pent comes up for him a lot. As does Knight of Swords, which to me says his ideas are a bit misguided here and not serving him well. Also, I don't know what to make of two knights. In RW, they are facing the opposite direction, and were next to each other in the spread. So I guess it means some inner conflict? The issue and the hidden are at odds? NOt sure what I could advise him here, based on this. I'd just sound really vague.

Alex	07 Apr 2003
Women who have a high "head turning score" have ABSOLUTELY no need to find men over the internet. They have men at their feet without having to search. On the other hand, if such women happen to look for men on the internet, they won't be looking for a guy that is exactly what they will get in a routine walk into a bar. They may be looking for someone who values them for something else. May be your friend is "looking for love in all the wrong places". Tell him to go to car races. There he'll find the kind he's looking for. Alex. P.S. In overall though, I agree with 13. Quote: Originally posted by quan_yin I should say that part of the problem with telling him what the cards say is that I have to bite my tongue in annoyance at his attitude. I'm not always able to hide my irritation at his ranking and decisionmaking on these women, based soley on a few factors (their beauty, their figure, their beauty, their "head-turner" factor, their "mother-potential," repeat ad nauseum) it is hard for me to stay neutral. I start getting mad despite my committment not to judge.

Thirteen	07 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by quan_yin Would appreciate insight. This is what I got: 1. Issue: Knight of Swords 2. Hidden Factor: Knight of Earth 3. Obstacle: Ace of Wands (Rx) 4. Advice: King of Pent (Rx) 5. Outcome: The Magician This spread is about taking the opposite approach of the one he usually takes. The issue is that he's a talker--a fencer with words, like the Knight of Swords--and an internet junky. He boasts, he informs, he struts, he shows off what he knows--he plays the Knight (romances women) verbally and in text (online). Hidden factor (K/P) is what's within him that he's hiding. I don't know if he is or is not really a Knight of Swords--but inside him is the Knight of Pentacles--this is, as you pointed out, the opposite of the Sword Knight. Down to Earth, PHYSICAL not verbal, SHOW, not tell. DO rather than say. Or, put it another way, Actions speak louder than words. It's why he's good at his job. But he's hidding that part of himself from these women. Obstacle--what's in the way? If the Ace were upright, I'd say it was his ego--but as it's reversed, it indicates his insecurity, and likely procastination. He refuses to put any energy into making things work. Online dating is pretty darn passive--and tossing aside girls that don't work is easier than putting effort into a relationship. Laziness and self-doubt are the obstacles. Advice: Your King is reversed, so it isn't about talking to an older man unless you know a happy, mellow bohemian. See, the King of Pentacles, like all Kings, thinks he's in charge. He also thinks money can take care of everything, and THINGS are important (big house, expensive car). Thus, there are two prongs to this advice. You decide if either or both are apt: 1) A King Pentacles reversed says to me that your friend needs to stop relying on things, trophy women included, to give him status. The perfect woman will be the one who goes for him even if he has nothing. So if he's been showing off to women, flaunting his material goods, telling them how much he makes, he needs to stop. That might get him girls, but it won't get him the girl he really wants. 2) He needs to stop being so controllling--stop running his love-life as if he were CEO of a business and he's looking for a merger. This isn't about focusing on his job, by the way. To the contrary, this advice is about leaving his job--how he runs it, how he deals with people--BEHIND! He can't deal with women as if he's still on the job dealing with clients (or whatever he deals with). Outcome: I understand why you're getting a not so good feeling from the magician--but remember the magician's message rather than persona--the magician makes what he wants out of what he has. Perhaps a way to read this card is this: "If you remember that actions are more important than words, that you must put energy into relationships, to leave your work-self behind, and stop trying to impress with money and things...If you take this advice and seriously and in all earnestness put it to use, you will find yourself a magician, able to transform any girl into your perfect woman." By the by--of course you didn't get The Tower; this spread was advice on how to get past his obstacles. When the Tower shows up, if it shows up, it ISN'T going to be advice. It's going to be a prediction of what will happen. YOU, as reader, can't use it for anything except to warn him that he's about to get a rude awakening. Remember, you can't advise someone to "wake-up"--they have to realise it on their own.

quan_yin	08 Apr 2003
I'll be calling him soon and I'll see how it goes to talk about this stuff. Meanwhile I did another reading on him (I like to ask a series of related questions and use different throws, to collect a broader picture of what's going on), and again, lots of Pents. 1. Issue: 6 of Pent (Rx) 2. Advice: 9 of Pent 3. Outcome: 7 of Cups (Rx) At first I was suprrised, but upon second thought, not. The throw doesn't suggest a great outcome. Again. And 6 of Pent seems to suggest giving things a break for a while, 9 of Pent seems to say try to develop a happiness with himself for a change. Alone. What do you think? I haven't gotten 9 of Pent as an Advice before. Thoughts? He'll never go for this idea that he should take a break. This is a man who tries way too hard to find The One. He's 40 yrs old, averages 2 -3 dates a week. Very disciplined in targeting and strategizing his dating. Last weekend he flew off to FL to meet an internet woman. After one date, they are already talking about the potentials of her moving here, in the theoretical sense. Then this week he had a couple other internet dates. I didn't bother to ask how they went... So I don't know if he is confusing working on a relationship with playing a role. So I think it may be the second thing described on the King of Pent. by Thirteen. His whole attitude on dating all feels like a big PROJECT. It's all about a timeline and goals. Interestingly, he feels he can like just about any woman, as long as she is nice. Emotional compatibility doesn't matter to him. I've observed that he seems more concerned with finding someone who is wild about him than him finding someone he is wild about. The cards haven't actually said this explicitly, but it's just a feeling I'm getting and I don't know why. Strange. Wish me luck.

quan_yin	04 May 2003
Well, I tried to tell him some of my impressions on his situation. Nothing I said resonated at all. He does not see a pattern, or his role in all of what he has created. Is it possible that me and the cards are just really, really, off? I guess I was hoping for some sort of mild a-ha from him, and without it, I am left wondering if I was just...wrong.

Keslynn	04 May 2003
quan yin, don't let him make you doubt your tarot abilities. The cards probably aren't resonating with him because he's not wanting to see the truth. I've done the same thing to myself. The cards will tell me to walk away, but I keep at it. Always, always, the cards were right. I should have walked away. You tried to help him but there's nothing else you can do. As Thirteen and Alex have pointed out, he's got to realize something's wrong on his own. Otherwise, it's not going to have much impact. I also echo the advice to just stop reading for him until he's willing to listen. Don't let this guy undermine your confidence in your abilities. It's just not worth it. :) Kes

Lady Mary	05 May 2003
First I couldn’t help laughing about this guy’s weird strategy (2-3 dates a week and very disciplined in targeting and strategizing his dating!!!). But on second thought I got the impression that he must be really desperate. So if possible, don’t stop your relationship with him. It seems to me that he’s very anxious about doing the right thing. He must have a very low self-confidence too. Next time he asks for a reading (if you’re willing to do another reading for him) you could try a different thing. Lay all the cards (or maybe only the Major Arcana cards) face up on the table, so that he can see all the images. Use then a relationship-spread and ask him to pick the cards on purpose for a relationship he’d love to have and maintain. It’s his decision then. He has to think about his “ideal” love-relationship. Maybe you can then have a good discussion with him on this basis. Good luck – Lady Mary PS.: My suggestion for a relationship-spread: 7 12 8 5 11 6 3 10 4 1 9 2 Left column: Person A Right column: Person B Center column: Relationship itself 1 and 2 and 9: Physical Relationship 3 and 4 and 10: Emotional Relationship 5 und 6 und 11: Intellectual Relationship 7 und 8 und 12: Spiritual Relationship

quan_yin	27 May 2003
Hi, Sorry to continue on this thread but I could really use some support here. Tonight I became upset about this, and I realize it's as much my issue as my friend's. But I don't know what to do... As I stated, awhile ago I did try telling Robert what I saw, and he did not agree with any of it. OK fine. Well, he has also visited a psychic recently. I, unfortunately, had the idiocy to give him the name of someone I've worked with in the past. She is very good, to say the least. I haven't seen her in years but Robert has seen her 2 times in 6 months. He just called tonight about after his appointment, all excited. Could barely wait to tell me all the things she had predicted for him. The issue? She contradicts everything I have been saying. According to her, he's doing great emotionally, in a good place, and will be fabulously wealthy and married within a year. And I'm upset again, because I find myself doubting my own instinct because I know from personal experience that this woman is very good. Otherwise I wouldn't care. But since I know her accuracy (in the strangest things, I might add), I find it even harder to dispute him when he says things like: the woman in FL that he met over the Internet is THE ONE (meanwhile, my cards are screaming I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT to me) but this woman has been right about so many other things from his first visit, so why would this be any different? Like the fact that he landed this job, and that he is on the right track in being very rich,and in a strong place emotionally and ready for a serious relationship, she says. Yet, to me, the cards are screaming the exact opposite, that because of his wealth and success, he's missing the point. I'm upset that I see everything completely OFF from someone I know is always RIGHT. I'm disheartened. I can't help see how accurate she is, and how happy and relieved Robert is, and how disappointed I am. All at the same time. Change for him is nowhere on the horizon. THat was my original question. Is there a card that would suggest a change? Well, instead, the current energies are now extra amplified, stronger than ever. I would like to hear from anyone who has faced this sort of disappointment before, where you see everything completely different than what someone else sees, especially when you know that other person is usually correct. How could I be so off??? I mean, even in the best of circumstances, I don't see how two people could see a situation like this so differently. I can understand differences of opinion between readers, but this is completely opposite, and wE can't both be right. I feel so disappointed with myself. Feeling full of self doubt. And, I'll admit, feeling bad that my friend Robert is now practically bursting with happiness in predicted good fortunate, and I feel a little left behind in the friendship. Sorry. I am upset and I just need to vent. Anyone else would think I'm crazy for even thinking about such things as tarot ans pyschics, and if I didn't know this woman myself, I wouldn't give a flip, but she is uncanny in seeing people, events and issues. And meanwhile, I'm feeling pretty crummy.

LittleWing	28 May 2003
i want to give you my opinion i dont believe any one can predict the future for sure. the future is in the friend - robert's hands - nothing has been written, and he has every capability of changing or creating things for himself. how long was it that you did a reading, before he went to the psycic?? there is a possibility that he is becoming more READY. from what you have said - it seems like you have been getting it right!! perhaps this woman is the ONE, but whether it all works smoothly is another matter. perhaps she is the one to help him with his emotions - or to teach him a lesson. you could both be right - just coming from compltley different angles. there are many angles that one can look at things - and Robert would do well to take both of your advice on board (not just pick the good bits!)

Aoife	28 May 2003
I think you need to take a long, hard look at what is really going on here. There's a saying - along the lines of 'a friend's misfortune is not an entirely unpleasant thing'. On first reading of this thread I got a strong sense of schadenfreude [taking pleasure in the misfortune of another] operating between the two of you. I feel you are enmeshed in a destructive relationship. It is almost as though Robert has become a kind of shadow self. Unless his attitude to life is disproven [and acknowledged by him to be wrong] you feel that it must be you who's in the wrong or got it wrong. I'm sure you know that things are never as simple as that but I wonder why you have got yourself so heavily involved. I'm also puzzled why you believe your friend has given you an accurate portrayal of the psychic's reading. You've implied before that he's pretty defended and only hears what he wants to hear. What makes you so sure he's giving you the full story? Perhaps he may take pleasure in winding you up? I would urge you to look long, hard and deep into your reasons for wanting this person in your life. I would also urge you to stop reading for him - you are far too involved in the outcome to be able to read for him.

LittleWing	28 May 2003
I agree with Aoife. you seem so heavily involved and his situation is clearly taking over your life right now. while a good friend cares, you have to even let loved ones make their own mistakes. it is sometimes hard to do an objective reading for someone / something you are invloved / close to.

DarkElectric	28 May 2003
Thirteen's analysis of the situation feels spot on to me. This guy has too much invested in his own egotism and sexist attitude for anything other than the Tower to be effective here. Narcissists make lousy partners, and it seems to me he doesn't want to be a partner, he does want to be the CEO. I really hope you don't begin to doubt your own tarot abilities because of this psychic woman's readings for him. He might not be telling you everything. He may also be subtly attempting to manipulate you so that your readings all of a sudden start telling him what he wants to hear. And if she's as good as you say, she might know already what he wants to hear and tells him, so as to keep him coming back and paying for readings from her. Hey, it sounds as if he's trying to advertise that he's Mr Bigga Sugar Daddy. Isn't a 'Sugar Daddy" a caramel lolly thing on a stick? Also known as "An all day sucker"? If that's what he wants to be, he's certainly going after the sort of woman who will make him one of those. No wonder he doesn't seem to be interested in the truth. Maybe he already knows.

oliveoil	28 May 2003
Why are you so invested in "Robert?" What is it that makes all of this so important to you? I get the sense that you don't want him to be happy - that if he achieves happiness then you will lose something. I also get the sense that you need to prove that you are right/correct to him and to yourself in a way that strikes me as unhealthy. IMO it sounds like both of you have some control issues going on.

CompassRose	28 May 2003
I'm in the boat with everyone else who's wondering why this is so important to you. (On the "advice" front... the cards will show change when change happens. Can't make them bark and dance on cue (nice though that would be!). I don't know that I'd necessarily be expecting the Tower -- but definitely, after all these readings, you'll know it! If you need to tell him what you think, I suggest putting the deck away, pouring him a cup of coffee and laying it down, myself.) However, I wonder if maybe revisiting these readings, with an eye to what they have to tell YOU about what's going on with the whole deal, might not be more valuable to you at this point. Methinks, you are not right now reading for "Robert" alone, what with everything you've got wound up in this. As for the psychic, yah. Without a taped recording of the session, for all you know, it could be like that old Far Side cartoon of "what a dog hears". (bad stuffbadstuffbadstuff)GOOD STUFF(badstuffbadstuff) ;)

quan_yin	29 May 2003
Thank you to all who responded. My original question was wanting to know why my reading was so off. But I see perhaps it's more interesting to ask about my issues instead. OK. I understand that, but allow me... Point taken that I'm not perfect. Except I don't have a desire to be "right" and I certainly do not wish to control my friend into a miserable existence, as much as just wanting to know why my reading is so completely "off." I just wanted input. But in this case there doesn't seem to be an answer. I had thought there should be some sort of universal truth through the tarot that would apply evenly to everyone, rich and dating or poor and not dating. A principle that would make sense to various different readers just like it would make sense to psychic just like it would make sense to a good counselor, or even my grandmother, who is a wise woman and never bothers with cards or any of this. I suppose that is why I was so disappointed when the result was not what I was expected. A psychic's interpretation did not follow my interpretation of spiritual law according to the cards, and it is likely that I missed the boat because she is usually right. So it hasn't come anywhere close to an answer I understand. This is what upset me. Not a desire to relish on Robert's misfortune or control him. And perhaps it didn't help the reading that I had issues everyone has so pointed out for me. If you are completely devoid of issues when you read for your friends, congratulations, carry on. But I would respectfully add that I thought the point of the board is to discuss such questions, rather than bash each other for having issues to begin with. What's the point of that? Oh well. Thanks again for everyone's time.

CompassRose	29 May 2003
I'm sorry you thought people were bashing you... I certainly didn't mean my post as a bash. It's only that it's very difficult to read where one's own opinions/feelings/emotions are involved; one reason, I suppose, why it's so often hard to read for oneself. Universal language. Hm. I don't think it's quite that straightforward. (Otherwise, there wouldn't be all those deck variations out there. You'd only need one.) To me (language freak that I am) the best analogy is words. They have dictionary definitions, yes, but they have particular feelings and shades of meaning to me as well, shaped by where I first heard or read it, certain "ten-dollar" words my father customarily uses to be funny... even 'grey' feels different to me than 'gray', though the dictionary definition is the same. And of course, if you speak or write to someone, what you say is filtered through books they've read (or not) and biases and feelings, and, perhaps, the fact that your recipient may incorrectly believe that agrimony means 'revenue from sales of the wheat crop.' ;) Anyway, whether or not the language is universal doesn't matter, if you're getting the answer to the wrong question... If you think the cards are responding to Robert's query, when in fact they are giving you the answer to "What do these cards have to DO to make Robert pick up the Clue Phone already???" because that's the 'stronger' issue and you're laying them out after all -- Well, obviously, it doesn't signify what language you're speaking when the wires are crossed.

Trogon	29 May 2003
Hi Quan_Yin, This has been an interesting and rather intense discussion with a lot of thoughts. But, getting back to the original question... what cards might represent an impending change, or a strong need for change... there are quite a few to my way of thinking... The Tower definitely represents sudden and overwhelming change and, depending on where it comes up in a reading it might indicate a coming upheaval, or an overwhelming need for change... a call to make a deep search of the self and one's motivations, desires, actions and so forth. Or there may be an event which causes this kind of self searching change. The Devil is another card which comes to mind as one calling for a change. If this were to come up in a reading for someone (again, depending on where it is, and the other cards), I might think of it as calling for the person to start making a drastic change in her or his ways. The Wheel of Fortune - reversed is another card relating to change. In fact I recently had it come up in a reading for an on-line acquantance. When I saw this card, I felt - "she's very afraid of making some changes in her life that really need to be made. There are of course, other cards which relate to changes in ones life. I would say, given the circumstances you've mentioned, you might want to do a review of the Tarot (just thumb through your deck) with an eye to what cards can relate to personal revelations and changes in behavior. As for the psychic giving a different outcome for your friend than what you've come up with using the Tarot; A couple of possibilities come to mind. As others have mentioned, your friend may have been heavily "editing" what that psychic told him. For instance... if she had said something like "I can see you settling down with the right woman, and soon, but you'll have to make some changes in yourself and how you are going about finding the right person." He might have "heard", "I see you settling down and finding the right person." Others have mentioned that he might be actually misrepresenting what she said. These things are very possible on a subconscious level and would, in some ways, make sense given what you've already mentioned about the way he is going about finding dates. It is also possible that the psychic was just seeing things from a different perspective from what you were seeing. In fact, it is very possible that your friend had phrased his questions completely differently from the way he's been asking you. Then again, maybe the Tarot is giving you an insight into something entirely different than what the psychic was seeing. I wouldn't necessarily say that you, or your Tarot deck, were wrong... probably just seeing things differently. As for how to approach this situation. You'll have to decide for yourself whether or not you'll continue doing readings for your friend. Also, you might want to consider seeing if he'll let you do a reading addressing these other issues, instead of simply continuing with the "is this the right girl for me" readings. In fact, if it were me, I'd do a Tarot reading for myself on how best to approach the situation and whether or not I should continue doing these readings for him. Hope this has been of some help...

Dark Eyes	05 Jun 2003
Quan_Yin, There is nothing worse than doubting your knowledge and accuracy of the tarot, especially if you are very passionate about it as you seem to be. My thoughts on the thread, are similar to the others, that perhaps you are just too involved to get a clear picture. It is awful, I know, when you really want to help someone, but the cards tell you what the querent doesn't want to hear. Like Dark Electric brought to mind.... your psychic friend may well be telling him just what he wants to hear, being that she is not close to him like you are, it is easy for her to be objective in a way and direct the reading to suit herself. Perhaps to keep him visiting her for more readings. She may have an alterior motive, you may not know her as well as you think. On the other hand, she may be a good and reliable reader as you say she is and he may well have bent the truth for her in the beginning, thus tainting the outcome. I find, when I read for people, if they are not clear in their own mind, as to what they want to ask the cards,the reading becomes confused. After a while, reading for the same person regarding the same matter over and over gets completely twisted out of context/ proportion/ and shape generally. The message between reader and querent becomes blurred, and it doesn't matter what cards come out in the end, none of them seem to make sense. I suggest, let him go to the psychic friend of yours, you have a break from his problems, and eventually I believe the same thing will happen with the psychic as happened with you. She will find confusion with him also. You may then breath a sigh of relief, the problem is his not your tarot ability. Only then, I believe, will he listen to real reason and his life will change. I would like to see the sun card come out for him, what goes around comes around. Also, this card to me signals that unfulfilled wishes may come true, unfinished business will be finished, problems deep rooted will become evident and answers will become available. He is not a bad person I am sure, and a happy change card may be just what he needs. He needs the sun to come out for him finally, the girl of his dreams to appear, it will also be the sun coming out for you. Good luck, much encouragement and best wishes Dark Eyes.

The what card might finally indicate a real change? thread was originally posted on 05 Apr 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.