difference between Justice and Judgement

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 May 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

quan_yin	08 May 2003
I always have trouble understanding the difference between Justice and Judgement. Can someone clarify,perhaps with an example that might illustrate? I recently had a throw where both showed up. One was the significator, the other, the emotional root of the issue. I couldn't distinguish between the two. Everything I've read feels so darn abstract -- I know they're similar but I also understand they're not exactly the same either...Thanks.

divinerguy	09 May 2003
Justice is the process of allocating responsibility in financial terms, blame or both. It can take place at any time within a person's lifetime and is not limited to one instance. It is often meted out by lower level functionaries, by one's peers or by one's own conscience. Judgment is more often associated with a single, more comprehensive conclusion. It is broader in scope and will often consist of a conclusion and sometimes punishment by a morally superior entity. That's what I think, but I'm sure our Tarot sisters and brothers will contribute their own thoughts.

jema	09 May 2003
i am stressed for work and all but can offer this: I see justice as taking personal responsability and judgment as a personal transformation. justice is for karma, forgiving, laying of blame, are we still trapped in old sins, do we still blame our mother for our crappy lovelife or our teacher in 5:th grade for never getting our dream-job. these are the issues justice raise. judgment is about hearing your inner calling and be changed by it. it is a big spiritual step in your life, not of being brave and taking the plunge - but of not having any choice but to do so. the calling is that of your true Will and the judgment is about simply recognice that you have in fact already been transformed.

Belladonna	09 May 2003
I agree with Jema that the Judgement card implies a transformation that you have no choice but to undergo. There is a certain amount of "enlightenment" or sudden understanding of the past which would cause you to change your behaviour as you step into the future. The Thoth deck sees this card as Adjustment. A new awareness that would cause you to make adjustments to your life. I've also read one woman's interpretation of this card as "fanfare accompanying a rite of passage." An internal acknowledgement of evolution probably catalysed by an event, a transformation from a less evolved state to a more evolved state with awareness. Perhaps one of our children flunks out of school and that brings home the fact that we, as parents, have been spending too much time at work, we see how we've been neglectful, we understand how we've contributed to the present- we wake up, we have different priorities, we make decisions to make adjustments to our lives, we will spend more time at home. Justice may indeed accompany adjustments being made in your life, but these usually are not made by choice. They are imposed by others, or by events we have no control over and they serve to balance us out where we have been imbalanced. Reward or punishment for behaviour, or, as Jema says, karma coming back to us. We may not understand why we've lost our job, but the justice card may imply it is because we need to spend more time with our family, we have been imbalanced and this is a way for that balance to be restored to our life.

allibee	09 May 2003
Justice can be seen, to me, to be 'cause and effect' in action. What's the expression: as you sow, so shall you reap? The card asks you to get things into perspective, be totally honest with yourself and others - however unpalatable that is! Judgement then asks you to lay this to rest, accept that whatever happened happened and wipe the slate clean. It's hard enough to forgive others, and it's even harder to forgive yourself, but you must. It will be hard, but it will also be final. The ordeal will be over. When you've done this you will reemerge with a clear conscience and become a 'new and improved' you. Justice 'sees' where the fault lies Judgement 'absolves' the fault and moves on. If, for example, Judgement was the root emotional cause, we could say that this person maybe won't or is unable to 'forgive and forget'. That they are also unable to move on with their lives. The significator then may suggest that it's time to be honest with themselves. They are living out of balance because of the root cause. They've perhaps got themselves into this mess because they can't see where the fault lies. Justice often says it's time to pay attention and stop ***** footing (feline footing sounds ridiculous) around.... a solution needs to be found. Naturally there is a lot more to these cards, but this is just a general idea A.

ihcoyc	09 May 2003
Justice to me is just that: the weighing of blame and praise, of reward and punishment, fairly and justly or otherwise. Judgment is a much happier card, usually. Here the scene is of the Last Judgment, when the archangel Gabriel blows the trumpet that makes the dead rise from their graves. It's a card of rebirth and renewal, of that which once was lost being found again, of springing anew from the tomb, of resurrection. The judgment here is divine judgment, not earthly judgment.

skytwig	09 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by ihcoyc Judgment is a much happier card, usually. Here the scene is of the Last Judgment, when the archangel Gabriel blows the trumpet that makes the dead rise from their graves. It's a card of rebirth and renewal, of that which once was lost being found again, of springing anew from the tomb, of resurrection. The judgment here is divine judgment, not earthly judgment. I love the way you put that, ihcoyc. In many ways, its the cooler part of the Phoenix experience, isn't it?

lunalafey	10 May 2003
.....I broke it down to this, Justice is making a stand for what you believe, making balance{of your own design} making a decision.... Judgement is the karmic review of those belifes and decisions, 'paying the price' if what you stood for turned out to be wrong. It's either good fortune or repercussions.

Inana	10 May 2003
I dont see many similarities between Justice and Judgment. Justice is about getting balance. Can point to the need to take a difficult decision. You need to think it a lot and ponder all aspects, cause its important this decision is the most fair for all people involved otherwise all will be hurted. Also stands for legal and burochratic matters. It has more material aspects than Judgement. Judgement i see it more like an interior card. Its a renovation. Like a Phoenix. Taking new perspectives in the way you act, feel or think about something. Or giving freedom to something that was intentionally hidden.

Osher	02 Apr 2004
Would I be right in saying the following: Justice is the first stage. It's about finding the balance, the right way, and rebirth. In a court case, it is the court trying to find the truth, and what happens next. Whatever happens next is a new phase in someone's life, a rebirth. However, Judgement is the second stage. The decision is made, and now the judge presents the decison: innocent or guilty. Therefore, the two cards should be seen as interlinked, one depends on the other?

ros	02 Apr 2004
Justice- Logical thinking that bring balance back into your life. The truth will set you free. Decisions have to be made. Judgement- Cleaning out the cobwebs or skeletons in our lives so we can move forwad with confidence. Making a decision so that we can move on in life. Bringing light to things that are hidden to bring peace of mind. So I use: Justice for logical decisions to balance life & Judgement for a decision to bring peace of mind.

ros	02 Apr 2004
If you use Justice as #11 this is a master number or 1+1=2 Judgment is a #20 or 2+0=2 If you study numerology they are both a #2. Just some extra information.

WalesWoman	02 Apr 2004
Ros, Doing the numerological thing was a great insight, I keep forgetting about doing that sometimes. I was going to add that Justice is taking responsibility for yourself, your thought, deed and actions, acknowledgeing your mistakes and being totally honest with yourself, otherwise we are doomed to keep creating the same mistakes and never understand why this **** keeps happening. Cutting through the BS to get to the truth and what it brings with it. Judgement takes this understanding further so that you can let go of all this stuff, and be who you really are meant to be, yourself. It's total awareness and the freedom that brings with it. So with these, both having 2 as their lowest form is another variation of the High Priestess, to dig down deep into our subconscious and discover the secrets within ourselves, who we are, the things we want to keep hidden or are unaware of and from this gain knowledge, understanding and the freedom that comes with enlightenment. Justice has a veil behind her as well, tearing away the secrets we use to blind ourselves to who we are and why we are this way, and just become.

Jewel-ry	03 Apr 2004
I think of Justice as a card of truth, integrity and evaluation. I like the term 'evaluation' and use this as a trigger for this card. Its more of an analysis card. Analysing a situation so you can understand the rights and wrongs, the cause and the effect. Judgement is more of a rebirth, calling, beginnings, liberating card, so by this time the analysis/evaluation has already occurred and you are on to the next stage - acceptance and beginning again. Putting something behind you and moving on. J :)

The difference between Justice and Judgement thread was originally posted on 08 May 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.