Emperor and Empress--an Imperial Family?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 May 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| littleneptune |
04 May 2003 |
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I recently encountered a dilemma in a reading when both the Emperor and the Empress came up in response to a question about an intellectual matter. There were no children involved, and the project was not related to art, fertility, etc. I think the cards were referring to some older, experienced men and women who served as important advisors. Similarly, in a reading for a man, the Emperor came up in clear reference to the man's role as a caretaker and parent. Now I'm confused about the meanings of these cards. I plan to read for working mothers, single dads, etc. in the near future, and my previous interpretations (Empress nurturer/home life, Emperor power/ career life) now seem unsatisfying. Is there a newer, more "modern" take on these two characters (which wouldn't require buying a special deck?)
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| Keslynn |
04 May 2003 |
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Even though it is an intellectual question, the Emperor and Empress can still apply as broad ideas. The Empress is more the raw unformed potential initially coming into being. It's the baby being born and loved for primarily what it is rather than it's potential. The Emperor is the structure that's put upon the potential of the baby/project/whatever. The Emperor is more of an intellectual structure. Neither of these ideas has to apply to a particular part of life. They can apply to ideas, events and yes, fertility and art as well.
Also, they can be people.
I don't know if that helps or if I'm just repeating back what you said first.
:) Kes
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| Kiama |
05 May 2003 |
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When it comes to a more modern intepretation of these cards, I see the Empress as personifying the forced needed to bring an idea/plan to fruition. I also see it as care, attention to what's going on around you.
The Emperor I see as responsibility and action taken on ideas, plans, projects, events etc. What makes a good Father after all? A man who takes responsibility. So, I 've just taken teh idea of responsibility and expanded on it.
Kiama
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| Belladonna |
05 May 2003 |
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I agree with Kiama about the Emperor being responsible. An Emperor also moves forward into new territory, acquires new land, unchartered land in a way that keeps the peace and stability for his people. So when the Emperor shows up, I think of the need for someone to move forward into a new domaine, but not abandoning his homeland to do so. He must never be rash, either, in doing so. People depend on him to keep the structure stable.
The Empress has a lot to do with keeping the flow of love and nurturance open and free from blackage.. That means that if you are not open to love directed your way, or you are unable to love and care for yourself that you will be ineffective in giving this to others. You can't pour anything out of an empty pitcher. There's balance implied here- it goes both ways. The Empress is giving, generous and patient with her love and care, able to bring to fruition projects, relationships etc., but what goes unnoticed sometimes is that one of the reasons she is so able to do this is because she is extremely receptive as well. She takes good care of herself, and she knows how to let the goddess nurture her as well.
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| littleneptune |
05 May 2003 |
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thanks for your replies--the problem with the man's reading was that I was blathering on about career when in fact his problem had to do with his kids (he's a divorced father). I'm finding the separation of Career/Family not useful in some situations...
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| Kiama |
05 May 2003 |
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littleneptune: This is why I prefer to know what area of life the querent is asking about, before I start even shuffling the cards... I feel that the cards by themselves are so broad that trying to talk about them without knowing what area of life you should be applying their meanings to, is very difficult, and often leaves you in a sticky situation.
I don't mind 'general readings' where the querent asks 'what is going to happen to me in the next 6 months', because I can work that so that we have card positions in the 6 months spread to represent different areas of life. But when the querent just keeps the question, or the area of their life the question resides in, to themselves, I find that very difficult. I'm as psychic as a piece of toast (I've been saying this sentence for years, cuz it's true) so I'd rather know what area of life they're asking about, instead of trying to play guessing games...
Kiama
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| littleneptune |
05 May 2003 |
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I agree, but sometimes the persons' inquiry is simply "Will I be Happy?" (as it was in this case). That's all he wanted to know! In any case, now I'm wondering if Emperor and Empress could simply mean "being in charge", being in a position of authority, having to look out for those who are younger or less experienced, whether at work or at home...
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| Keslynn |
05 May 2003 |
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Well, since he's a divorced father, then perhaps both cards came up because he's finding that he now has to fill both the father and mother role for his children.
:) Kes
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| littleneptune |
05 May 2003 |
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Sorry, not explaining myself clearly (darn Mercury retrograde!). In the divorced man's reading only the Emperor came up. We surmised it was about his role as a father and caretaker.
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| littleneptune |
05 May 2003 |
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Allibee--thanks very much for that link to the Empress, it really got me thinking...
After doing some research into the early Emperor and Empress iconography, I noticed that both are depicted as crowned rulers, and in the early Cary-Yale Visconti they are BOTH shown with children. This makes sense to me in light of the experiences I have had with the cards. The Emperor could represent father/boss and the Empress could be mother/boss. The father wouldn't necessarily have to be harsh, or the mother loving. I don't think now that the early imagery was depicting motherhood alone for the Empress, or authoritative rule alone for the Emperor. Somewhere over the years that definition has become popular, but I'm not sure it encompasses the whole of the meaning. Thanks everyone for their input, it has helped me to find an 'ancient' solution to a 'modern' dilemma!
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The Emperor and Empress--an Imperial Family? thread was originally posted on 04 May 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.
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