Maybe I'm splitting hairs about the 8 pentacles...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 May 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Belladonna	05 May 2003
I feel like I've gained a lot of clarity about the 7 and since it went so well, I'd just like to try it with the 8- there's something still nagging at me a little bit. I've pulled the 8 of pentacles for 2 different people when it indicated a pregnancy and my interpretation of the card in general is that of having "sown the seed", having set things in motion already and now what is required is to sit back and wait (not doing nothing, exactly, but...?), patience, gentleness and nurturing to fruition. It reminds me of the farmer who went out to help his crops grow in the middle of the night by pulling on them- well that would be the opposite. I've even seen it once, in reverse, when someone was ill and losing the strength and will to live and was indeed close to death- they didn't have the ability to nurture themselves anymore, or the patience and strength to bring their own health back to "fruition". The seed of illness had already taken root and the result was kind of the opposite of a pregnancy. Does this make sense to You, too? Or am I way off? Does anyone have any subtle (or glaring!)differences in interpretation? I also would appreciate any insight on how the apprenticeship idea fits in with this card.

WolfSpirit	05 May 2003
I agree with you on the patience (pentacles not being very fast generally) but I see it as asking a little more work than just nurturing...I would not use the example of sewing seeds and watching them grow, I would rather use that of a handyman or a carpenter...not asking very fast or nerve-wrecking work, but more work that asks for patience and perseverence. I haven't seen it as meaning pregnancy - that would be a different meaning. Wonder what the others see in this.

samantha	05 May 2003
Well, I can see how this card could fit in with trying to get pregnant ?! I think the "apprentice" aspect of it need not be confined to jobs . A role in life is also possible ...in which case "motherhood" would be a fitting one , especially if it is a first child.

Diana	05 May 2003
Belladonna: without knowing which position the cards came up in, it is hard to really give an opinion here. But generally speaking, I think the 8 of Pentacles could definitely relate to a pregnancy, especially an early pregnancy. Many people believe that the baby's soul does not join the baby's body till later in pregnancy - in the beginning, it is just a faint connection which becomes stronger and stronger until it really joins with the body round about the third month. So the eight of pentacles could definitely relate to a waiting period here. And would refer also to the fact that the baby is not yet complete. As to the apprenticeship idea, this sounds more to me like something from a Little White Book, and it doesn't sound to me like a universal meaning of the 8 of Pentacles. It sounds very specific to me, and specific meanings can't be transposed to all kinds of situations. Therein lies the danger of learning card meanings by rote.

Belladonna	05 May 2003
Diana, once the 8 of pentacles came up in the position for what has just come to pass. This lady had been trying to conceive for a few months and at the time I was quite convinced that this indicated that she had indeed successfully conceived a baby. She called me later to confirm she had! The second time it related to a pregnancy was as a further description for a court card, I took it to mean the woman represented by the court card was in fact also pregnant and my client immediately recognised this person in her life. The time it seemed to indicate someone near to death, it came up reversed in a position representing the querent's environment and while I don't remember the other cards, the spread had a lot to do with a relationship ending, experiencing grief- I remember the Lovers rx, Ace of Cups rx, hermit, high priestess... Anyways, in this case my timing was a little off, this client's brother had just died after an illness. Thank you for taking a look at this, I never really got the apprenticeship thing anyway!

lawguy51	05 May 2003
Winning by not doing. Patience. I think you pretty much nailed it. Of course, that's more of a Thoth interpretation. The RWS card may suggest a little more activity. Lawguy51

WolfSpirit	06 May 2003
So...would you agree that the Toth 8 pentacles corresponds with the 7 pentacles in the rws deck ? The Toth 7 pentacles does not seem to be the same as the 8 pentacles in the rws. And then some decks make their own mixture. I just read what I see in the picture, I think.

Belladonna	06 May 2003
Not necessarily, I don't see the 7 rws meaning a patient, waiting, nurturing period in which we are steadily trying to bring something to fruition. In the 7rws, the man is looking already at the fruits of his labour and hesitating before harvesting them. Why? Is there something else he needs to do? Is he thinking of what comes next? Does he regret having to harvest because he realizes this stage of the game is over and he's unsure how to proceed? I think the 7 implies a new choice, a new direction is needed now to continue.

firemaiden	06 May 2003
Belladonna, this certainly goes along with the ideas we were exploring before in the thread on the Crowley and MP 8 of coins Crowley: Prudence, Virgin Earth awaiting the phallic flow -Intelligence, lovingly applied to material matters. MP brings together the the previous ideas of prudence, growing seeds, and teamwork in her discussion of the leaf: the entire cosmos participates in growing one leaf. I think the apprenticeship thing is an outgrowth of the idea of the idea of craft - the patient mastery which allows the planted creative seed to manifest.

lawguy51	06 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by WolfSpirit So...would you agree that the Toth 8 pentacles corresponds with the 7 pentacles in the rws deck ? The Toth 7 pentacles does not seem to be the same as the 8 pentacles in the rws. And then some decks make their own mixture. I just read what I see in the picture, I think. Right, the Thoth 7 of Disks has no relation to the RWS 8 of Pentacles. But I would agree that the Thoth 8 has many similarities with the RWS 7.

Belladonna	07 May 2003
I'm sorry, I'm not getting it. Could you elaborate?

paradoxx	08 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by WolfSpirit So...would you agree that the Toth 8 pentacles corresponds with the 7 pentacles in the rws deck ? The Toth 7 pentacles does not seem to be the same as the 8 pentacles in the rws. And then some decks make their own mixture. I just read what I see in the picture, I think. The 78 relates to the number of cards in the standard tarot deck. I Believe that Crowley's Thoth deck does in fact switch meanings around, and creativily as possible. The Combination of Harris and Crowly's input provided a new wave of thinking on both extemes of the spectrum. On the other hand the Order of the Golden Dawn and Crowley did not always do things hand in hand, Crowley liked to be a little different and even then the OGD adapted various interpretations and relative associations with the numerology connection. This New Age brings forth a new concept, it is up to the individuals to bring and give opinions and from interaction that new age will be of the people, obsticles removed, problems solved, and the increase of human communication acts as a corridor for the development of humanity, Tarot, as a form of cartomancy and diviniation as well as other things, has always been a reflection of society.

Windhorse	30 May 2005
I have been examining this card all night from doing a spread regarding a situation that has arisen in my town. We are having a public meeting in a couple of days regarding avery mundane/earth/disks matter such as the erection of a fence on public lands. This card came up in a position in my spread indicating the healing that was needed. I can only assume that the idea of patience and the attention to fine detail (as symbolised in Thoth and others as Sun in Virgo) is what is required by the relevent people in order to heal the wounds and the rifts caused by the 8Swords that also appeared in the spread (the interference to action, the confusion caused by misinformation and perception of issues and problems; blockages basically) as did XIV Alchemy, the need to bring the two opposing elements/groups/factions together. This is the path to wisdom?! Work hard in order to gain the fruits of our harvest. Prudence can be defined as "the exercise of good judgment, common sense, and even caution, especially in the conduct of practical matters." I'd say we need here to 'dot the i's and cross the t's' as the saying goes. There is great healing here I believe if the relevent parties are willing to come together and focus on the job that needs to be done.

The Maybe I'm splitting hairs about the 8 pentacles... thread was originally posted on 05 May 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.