7 and 14.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

samantha	24 Jun 2003
Just before I fell asleep yesterday my mind * stated* the following : The chariot is Temperance with Wands energy. Is this totally off centre , or does it actually mean something ??!! ( I'm guessing that my mind was trying to make a link between some aspect of these two cards ....since they are quite obviously not the other.) The phrase has been going around in my mind today so , in danger of looking ridiculous , I will post my question ! Any feedback ("Go to bed earlier") welcome.

Mimers	24 Jun 2003
Very interesting thought there. "The Chariot is Temperance with Wands energy." They are both in a way about balancing opposing forces. Yet the Chariot moves. Temperance is standing still and very serene. The Chariot I see as controlling our oppossing wills. Like being able to be angry without loosing your temper. I often think of the teenage years when the Chariot comes up. There is so much these kids want to do and experience. They are ready to face the world head on. They are also constantly dealing with so many rampant changes and emotions within themselves. They are on the go (Wands) full of ideas (wands) The Temperance is a quieted down version. They are a little older and have experienced all sides of life. They realize that there is more to it than what they once thought. It is about balancing life and spirituality. Reflection too. Am I right? I am curious. What were you thinking about that this popped into your head. I think it was a great connection you made. Mimers

firemaiden	25 Jun 2003
Temperance is seen by Margarete Petersen as "Grenzgängerin" --= border crosser - the one who can travel between worlds. In the Spiral deck, she is Iris Goddess of the Rainbow, and messenger of the Gods -- another border-crosser. I think the Chariot, as a carriage for interior travel, like a Magic Carpet, accomplishes much the same voyage, yet with the added dimension of victory. Victory certainly speaks of "wands" energy -- after all the six of wands also bears the meaning of "victory" So I think your nighttime message from your mind was very astute.

Marion	25 Jun 2003
The Chariot is very much in control, balancing forces to make his Chariot move. Temperance is also about balance and control of factors. Could be a link there.

samantha	25 Jun 2003
Thanks for the replies. Mimers: I had been" looking back" over readings that I had done for myself . This particular set had been on pretty much the same topic , and had spanned a 2 year period ....er...yes !! Anyway , as a kind of final synthesis I was trying to get an overview . In the early readings temperance had come up alot , but as soon as more wands cards started to appear (as they did) Temperance vanished .....and was replaced by the chariot ( in almost every subsequent throw. ) Again once The Chariot card was *there* the number of wands cards diminished. So three "stages". I noticed the above , but couldn't account for it as such, and then the "statement" before I fell asleep .

Trogon	25 Jun 2003
Interesting thought behind connecting these cards in this way. It had not occurred to me before this. However, I see both of these cards as more than just balancing opposites. With the idea of balance, I think of Justice. With Temperence I think more of the blending together of separate things to achieve a new something. Like mixing bourbon, sweet vermouth and bitters to make a Manhattan cocktail. ;) If I may be so bold as to quote from Thirteen's Tarot Basics on the Temperence card; Quote: This card really does seem to be less about moderation then about the Sagittarian desire to find a unified field theory, a way of blending opposites, achieving synthesis. I can see The Chariot in these same terms as well. The pulling together of opposing forces and redirecting them in the desired direction. And yes... I can see this card as that blending seen in Temperence combined (blended ;) ) with the energy of Wands... to bring together these opposing forces and direct them towards a goal. Those are my thoughts on it anyway...

Minos	25 Jun 2003
I've always seen Temperance as a sort of engine. It provides the thrust behind a lot of cards. None of them handles exactly the same way, but the principle that makes them go is identical. I'd seen this especially with the Lovers before, but the Chariot hadn't occured to me. Nice insight.

isthmus nekoi	25 Jun 2003
Temperance is usually associated w/Sagittarius, but in the Vertigo deck, Sag is assigned to the Chariot. (Temperance becomes Aquarius)

samantha	26 Jun 2003
Sorry Isthmus Nekoi , I'm not very knowledgeable about things astrological . Could you explain what this "sagittarius" link is ? Do you mean that these two cards are , er , flavoured / ruled (??!!) by all things sagittarian ? And if so , what would you pull out as being significant ? A major influence or two . Thanks !

isthmus nekoi	26 Jun 2003
Hi Samantha, I find some ppl like to look to astrological associations, while others don't, but generally it is accepted that there is some overlap b/w the systems of astrology and tarot (or for another example, tarot and kaballah or tarot and alchemy etc). The associations most ppl are familiar w/were made by the Golden Dawn, although I have seen other systems (ie. Vertigo) and you can sometimes find symbolism w/i the cards (ie. Strength is ruled by Leo which features a lion). To be quite honest, I haven't really thought about Sag's association w/Temperance, although in Vertigo's deck, I sense a Sagittarian idealism, and the drive for freedom. Hope this helps!

NeXoRiouS	28 Jun 2003
so if my soul card is chariot, am i linked to the temperance too? As a next step in life?

sagitarian	28 Jun 2003
It's a message to you from your guides hon! You had to learn the alchemy part of mixing spirituality and life together. For this lesson, you had to stand still, be patient, and learn at your own pace, learning the right mixtures and being gentle with the forces you were working with as well as being gentle with yourself. Slowly, you were being guided to move, but slowly. Now, you're to be cautious, careful, but you are to take what you have learned and move with it now. You no longer have to stay so still (but patience is always good, don't ya hate that? :) ) Move with your ideas and go forward with them, things that you've been "planning", it's time for you to start taking "actions", taking your ideas one more step forward and "materializing them" but to do all this, it requires you to move. Use your gifts as you move forward. THis isn't suppose to be confused with change, it's not change, it's movement, making the ideas (wands) materialize (pentacles), does that make sense? I hope I got this across, when I read what you posted, I heard your guardians loud and clear with the message that they are trying to give you. They put the words in your head, I'm not sure if you realize that or not, and it's nothing to be scared of. If you have any questions feel free to pm me hon.

Minos	29 Jun 2003
Quote: Originally posted by NeXoRiouS so if my soul card is chariot, 1) am i linked to the temperance too? 2) As a next step in life? 1) Yes. 2) No, the first step. Temperance is the motor that makes the chariot go. It's the oomph that makes the Lovers' wedding happen. It's the oil that makes the Hermit's wick burn. It's the vinegar that the Hanged Man drinks upon the Cross. It's what makes the Devil so damn Devilish. Etc. Without Temperance, you're Nowheresville. Dig?

NeXoRiouS	29 Jun 2003
so how am i linked to the temperance? spiritually or it is inside me as the motor?

The 7 and 14. thread was originally posted on 24 Jun 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.