Slightly concerned by The Emperor!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Little Baron	30 Jun 2003
Hi all Just sitting at home on my bed, looking at various cards from various decks - I have with me - The Morgan Greer, Universal and Rider Waite, Pagan 2000, The Cosmic Tribe, Fantastical and The Thoth. When I pop to my house in London tomorrow, I will pick up Russian Tarot of St Petersberg, Phantasmagoric, Rohrig, Matt Myers Art Neuveau, Adrian, Winged Spirit and my Faeries Oracle. Thought it might be useful to compare different cards from different decks; see where some have simularities and some have differences. I pulled my Universal Waite/Rider Waite Emperor and compared him with the six others I have here. I can see obvious simularities with The Morgan Greer Emperor, and I can see the matery and poise reflected in The Fantastical (I do like the Fantastical Emeror a lot). As well as those cards being similar, I can see the obvious simularities between the Cosmic Tribe Emeror and that of the Thoth depiction; even their stance is the same. They both have the assertive and noble rams behind them and their posture represents leadership. I have always believed that this card simbolised the father somewhat, as well. And then we move on to the Emeror from the Pagan 2000. Have you seen it? I am affraid that I do not have a link for this but I am sure that I have seen it on the web before so it probably is not to hard to track down. This card shows a horned guy in the shadows of a wood. He blends in and looks not unlike the devil we often associate with in our minds subconcious. He is naked but his genitalia is covered by folage. He beckons us to come towards him. In a clearing in the trees, we see a may-poll in the sun-lit background. Eight female children are dancing around it. The pasture is green in comparrison to the darkness and brown of the woods where the Emeror stands. For me, this is quite a disturbing image of the Emperor. It is uncomfortable to look at and I am not sure that I want to connect him with the children in the background scene. As far as my association with the father figure goes, this is not an image of any father I have or would like to ponder on. It is an interesting image to meditate on but with my knowledge of the tarot, is not an image I relate to through any other deck that I have seen. Does anybody understand this card? Can anybody shed any light on what is quite a depressingly dark image? (A rather disturbed) Yaboot

Umbrae	30 Jun 2003
I think ‘Father Figure’ or hard discipline is misapplied. Try this…I liken this card to asking us to take a “searching and fearless moral inventory of our behaviors.” It usually means that we need to take a look at our behavior. Usually we are hurting others (acting in a negative and judgmental manner), stepping on toes, have skewed motivations, and are justifying our actions…Different ‘meaning’, however the end result is the same. Rather than discipline (a place for everything and everything in it’s place), it’s discipline of behaviour.

Shoshin	01 Jul 2003
Dear Yaboot, I found this webpage written by the creators of the deck with a brief summary of intended meaning: http://www.tarot-card-meaning.co.uk/emperor.html I personally don't see any maliciousness in his beckoning. I see it as an invitation to the party in the background. As the site says "Teach us, who desecrate nature, to relearn the old ways for which our instincts yearn." We are currently in the brown dead woods (the concrete jungle?). Through the invitation of the emperor we can pass into the green fields. Don't be mistaken however, the emperor is still the emperor. He'll size you up quick and if he doesn't like what he sees, his beckoning finger can turn into a stop sign.

raeanne	01 Jul 2003
Hi Yaboot, You might want to do a little research on "Greenman". I don't have the deck you are referring to, but it sounds like it uses Greenman as the Emperor. This is the male Nature energy.

Macavity	01 Jul 2003
Yeah, I'd like to know who he is - Maybe the book is the only answer! I was prompted to do some searching on the net - And the Green Man sounds a definite area to investigate! I don't find him THAT sinister - Maybe that's the influence of modern times? He seems to be a creature of shade, as the children are of daylight. They might be engaged in a traditional (unwitting?) celebration of him... in their May-Pole dance? Is he some Earth-God/Spirit? He reminds me vaguely of Bacchus, Pan, Satyrs etc. Lest sex rear it's ugly head :laugh: I do think e.g. Haindl-Pollack have an less limited take on both Emperor and Empress as being "sexier" (and dare I say younger) than the parental archetype suggests? As they state, it's something we often have difficulties coming to terms with in our own real-life "folks" ;) Fwiw, the Empress in the deck seems to be Demeter - who doesn't seem to have a consort? One Iason(?) was (apparently!) "zapped" by Zeus for their al-fresco activities in this very context! }) But, I'd really LIKE to know more about this "Aradia tradition", which I wasn't previously familiar with... Italian traditional Paganism/Wicca? Despite limitations, this seems to be one "Pagan" deck that has something interesting to say, outside the realms of bambi-cuteness or 70's hippy-ness :D Macavity (probably spreading more heat than light)

The Slightly concerned by The Emperor! thread was originally posted on 30 Jun 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.