XIII - Death as finished jig-saw puzzle

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	16 Jul 2003
Where are they? Where are the disassembled hands and feet, the grim reaper's salad? Oh my, but oh my, look! Look at XIII from the Rider Waite Deck! I mean really, a good long look! Here is a dead king, all in one elegant piece, and his grieving family. "The King is Dead (shach mat!) Long live the King!" How interesting, when the Grim Reaper traditionally chops people up into little pieces... to see ... Why, Halleluya! What is this! What, ho? The landscape of the entire deck? The Moon, here, the Hierophant there, there the Sun, and whoah!! the High Priestess's Rock (her stealth pose), and the Empress's cliff and waterfalls, and possibly soo much more. Are you trying to tell me, -- that which began in 78 pieces, is here joined in a single scene?? Death as Union? Death as the finished jig-saw puzzle? Speak!

Rusty Neon	16 Jul 2003
Yes, I do see some of the minor arcana in there too: - the snail from the RWS 9 of Pentacles; - a sail ship from the RWS 2 of Pentacles.

Mimers	16 Jul 2003
Aren't you glad you got that RWS! :D Firemaiden, one of the first threads I posted in when I joined acclectic was one about the 4 and 10 of swords and one about the death card. One of the reasons this card in the RWS does not irk me as it does others, is that beyond Death lies all that waits for you if you just let go of whatever it is you need to let go of. It is like it is saying, 'you can move on now'. The dead King tells me that no one is exempt. The Priest seems to be begging for mercy, why is he begging? because he likes his little world. The little girl seems to be going down, but peacefully. Not like she has been the victum of anything. It is as if she is allowing it. What strikes me most is the little boy! He looks right at death with no fear! What of that? Mimi

firemaiden	16 Jul 2003
Yup, yup, yup, Mimers, I sure am. Anyone see any other cards? How about the six of swords? The eight of cups? Rather than seeing the King's death as a signal that no one is exempt, I see it as a metaphore about cycles of death and ressurection. A king represents an epoch, a society, is representative of God on Earth, and especially of the Sun (as in Louis the Sun King). The word Ra (from which is derrived Re, Roi) means Sun, and King. As one King / Sun goes down, another one will rise. So we see the sun rising -- or is it going down? between those famous pillars -- which you recognise from the Moon Card. (the gates to heaven? the pillars of the Solomon's Temple? The High Priestess Pillars holding up the Veil?) Sun. There is one king down, but another is rising -- the king is dead, long live the king. I see the other figures in the card as observers and participants in the scene, not as the dying.

Trogon	17 Jul 2003
Cool Firemaiden... I hadn't picked up on quite so many of these nuances before. The towers in the background are pretty obviously the towers from The Moon. Possibly The Tower as well? The sun rising between them is reminscent (as you already mentioned) of The Sun. Then, I wonder... those cliffs back there... is The Fool up there at the top, ready to step off, even though we can't necessarily see him. Also, the ships on the water... perhaps the merchant from the 3 of Wands is up there as well, watching his ships set sail. But, one thing that really struck me as I was reading through this thread... the plain on which all the action is taking place... it looks like a tidal flat... there's a puddle... it looks muddy... is this the same tidal flat that the lady is standing in, on the 8 of Swords? Is this the scene she would see if she removed her blindfold? Perhaps this is why she doesn't... she fears the endings which are seen here, without being able to see the new beginnings...

firemaiden	17 Jul 2003
Yes! yes! yes! yes! Way cool, Trogon! It is definitely the Fool's cliff! Perhaps also the Hermit's promintory? And the hierophant is presiding over this death, and praying for the soul of the deceased, as the Empress on her knees imitates the Pietà. Perhaps that river is the same body of water which bears the six of wands to distant shores? and perhaps the child and the swooning/grieving empress are the cloaked figure and child of the six of wands. .. Now I am looking for the Hanged Man's tree/cross, I see some crosses down by the shore.

Celtic_Dragon	17 Jul 2003
Someone mentioned that the boy was looking straight up at death like he wasn't afraid of it, perhaps this is the boy in the next card, the sun? Perhaps the message is that knowing what death is and not being afraid of it opens a whole world of wonders and life for you.

firemaiden	17 Jul 2003
I agree, it looks like the boy in the Sun Card. :) (except for maybe the hair color?)

Celtic_Dragon	18 Jul 2003
.....actually I think they're both blonde....

firemaiden	08 Mar 2004
I'm wondering how this unity - death as finished jig-saw puzzle might influence the interpretation-- in death all things are united... Is this, instead of metamorphosis, the card of dissolution, and reintegration of the self?

tmgrl2	08 Mar 2004
Oh yes! Another great thread, Firemaiden (so much for boredom...we just can't seem to achieve it...heh, heh) I'm printing this one out. Have to go feed the troups...but a quick thought after reading everyone's post and looking at card again. One "body" is in the mud, decomposing?, two are kneeling, (Phoenix rising? child and young adult...page and knight? and King is standing...reborn to highest level? terri

ros	08 Mar 2004
This is serious "stuff" These cards drive me crazy, so when someone finds that Hanged Man in the Jigsaw please notify me. I'll be in the nut house with the Death card for now until the next card. lol

Major Tom	08 Mar 2004
*testing, testing....an annoying voice-over nasally twangs over the tannoy. Today, we have a chance to ask Dr. Waite himself about the design of the Death card. From The Pictorial Key to the Tarot by the good doctor himself: "The veil or mask of life is perpetuated in change, transformation and passage from lower to higher, and this is more fitly represented in the rectified Tarot by one of the apocalyptic visions than by the crude notion of the reaping skeleton." I guess he's saying let's make it bloody obvious. :laugh: He never had anything nice to say about the Marseilles. :confused: I guess he was trying to fix it. :laugh: The idea of 'the king is dead' is presented in the Marseilles as the crowned severed heads under the scythe of the grim reaper. })

firemaiden	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros when someone finds that Hanged Man in the Jigsaw please notify me. What is this... a challenge??? I don't see the Hanged Man, but I see his tree :D :D Thanks for the quote, Major Tom, that was interesting.

ros	08 Mar 2004
Thanks, I see the trees also, now that's good enough for me.

firemaiden	08 Mar 2004
Well, the horse is blocking our view of the other side of the river, so we can't see him. But he's definitely there. :P

lark	08 Mar 2004
I spy the Hermit.... There is an arrow on the heal of Deaths foot. It points to a cave in the cliff. Everybody knows Hermits live in caves. Also the little child who is holding flowers, isn't that the same little child from the 6 of cups? And the swooning maiden I think she was an the 3 of cups. Deaths white horse~ Now isn't that the same horse as on the Sun card, the Knight of Cups, the Knight of Swords and the 6 of Wands? And that little ship in the back ground 2 of Coins, and 3 of Wands? The plot thickens.

ros	08 Mar 2004
* on my way back to the nut house*

lark	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros * on my way back to the nut house* The nut house....? When you get back, go down the hall and turn left. I'm the first door on the right. Come on in and bring your deck. We'll have tea and discuss. I've got cookies too..... :D

ros	08 Mar 2004
I have to be in the right frame of mind to find these things without a problem. But one reader told me take the Death card & draw a line from the top left corner to the bottom right corner. The bottom left is the past & the top left is the future.Cover the top left & look at what you have & then cover the bottom right to see what you have. I don't know if this helps but Does that help stir this pot. lol down the hall turn left, down the hall turn left, down the hall turn left...

firemaiden	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros ...one reader told me take the Death card & draw a line from the top left corner to the bottom right corner. The bottom left is the past & the top left is the future.Cover the top left & look at what you have & then cover the bottom right to see what you have. ... That's interesting, ros, so what do you have?

ros	08 Mar 2004
Well firemaiden you have the past on the left & the future on the right. lol I'm not real good at this but everything on the right side is down & the boat & the horse is moving to the left. Left side shows people rising & the sun, the horse & the skeleton both smiling, a new life. How's that? Just some ideas. On my Universal Waite deck the horse has pink eye. Is that a flaw or does anyone elses horses' eye have color?

tmgrl2	08 Mar 2004
I'll meet you both there :confused::eek:;)

lark	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros On my Universal Waite deck the horse has pink eye. Is that a flaw or does anyone elses horses' eye have color? My horse on the Death card has pinkish glowing eyes. Maybe a reflection from the rising/setting sun. Now ros, honey, hang on to your bustle, because I just noticed that Death, Knight of Wands, Page of Wands, Fool, 9 of cups, Knight of Swords, and the Sun all have red feathers on their heads. In Pictures from the Heart, Sandra Thomas says the red feather may be from the Phoenix and symbolize the rebirth to come. Red can also mean ~ life force, action, willpower, purpose, passion, courage, sensuality, being busy in the outer world as opposed to the inner world, spiritual activity,and power. Feathers on a headdress are related to power, the sun, and high aspirations. Oh, hi tmgrl2, would you like some tea?

Phoenyx*	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros On my Universal Waite deck the horse has pink eye. Is that a flaw or does anyone elses horses' eye have color? Oh my gosh! Equine conjunctivitis! Okay, its time for me to get out my cards and see what I see..... Was that down the hall to the left? or right? *gets so confused in these nuthouses, though it should feel like home*

tmgrl2	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by lark My horse on the Death card has pinkish glowing eyes. Maybe a reflection from the rising/setting sun. In Pictures from the Heart, Sandra Thomas says the red feather may be from the Phoenix and symbolize the rebirth to come. Red can also mean ~ life force, action, willpower, purpose, passion, courage, sensuality, being busy in the outer world as opposed to the inner world, spiritual activity,and power. Feathers on a headdress are related to power, the sun, and high aspirations. Oh, hi tmgrl2, would you like some tea? YES I WOULD LIKE some TEA! Now I have a bad chest cold...a little honey and something else magical from your wonderful kitchen? I posted, too, about the Phoenix, thinking that the man/King? dead in the mud? and the kneeling child (page? partially risen) and the taller figure (also rising...knight?) and finally, the King as the Phoenix risen...each one representing a stage of this Phoenix rising from the ashes (except it looks like mud) love the comments about the red ....and the feathers. Think I'm going to have that tea.....see you all later..

Phoenyx*	08 Mar 2004
Maybe it really is mud, and not ashes that the phoenix rises out of. The flames could dry that mud quick. :)

tmgrl2	08 Mar 2004
true....

ros	08 Mar 2004
This is good to find this much in one card. I like it! down the hall turn left down the hall turn left down the hall turn left

tmgrl2	09 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ros This is good to find this much in one card. I like it! down the hall turn left down the hall turn left down the hall turn left It is fun, anyhow,...I never quite look at the card the same after a thread like this...About the Magician...that thread was really hysterical, but the magnifying glasses came out...(the "frog with glasses" part threw me over the edge) but FUNNY...AND I saw things through others I would never have seen (or read about, probably) MT, are you there, loving how complicated we can make this? Keep waiting for you to land in the middle again! down the hall turn left see you there terri

firemaiden	09 Mar 2004
That's wonderful, tmgrl!!! My sense is that when we lose our attachment about what we "ought" to see in the card, (and our fears of insanity...) and just let whatever absurd associations come up that want to, that's when the cards really start talking.

Imagemaker	09 Mar 2004
Quote: just let whatever absurd associations come up that want to, that's when the cards really start talking. Your spoof readings prove your theory, Incendiary Vixen :) I'm pondering the equine conjunctivitus here as the key to the whole card! The eyes are the mirror of the soul, after all . . . *running to get my large Rider Waite and a mug for tea.* May I join the Nut House party? Is the Mad Hatter here?

Imagemaker	09 Mar 2004
Wait, that quote is wrong--the eyes are the window to the soul--and the horse's soul has rosy windows? Well, that seems rather positive for a Death card . . . *muttering, "mirrors and windows"* -- something significant there. The glassed opening, the opening in the wall, the kind that reflects you back to yourself vs the kind that you see through . . . isn't there something meaningful here? I hope?

firemaiden	09 Mar 2004
It would be meaningful... if it were a reading... however the noiticed detail alone -- without a querant, without a question... is like a "voice crying in the wilderness"

lark	09 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Imagemaker *running to get my large Rider Waite and a mug for tea.* May I join the Nut House party? Is the Mad Hatter here? [/b] Well of course you can Imagemaker. Management has decided to open a whole new wing for new comers. Triquetra, sweetie, you didn't ask to join but, I saw an attendant chasing you down the front lawn with a butterfly net, so I'm expecting you any minute. (Watch out hon, don't trip over that crop circle.) Yes, Imagemaker the Mad Hatter is here. He only uses the Alice in Wonderland deck and he keeps thumbing through the cards muttering that he can't see what the h*ll we're talking about. For those of you who may have missed it in another thread FireMaiden owns the nut house. She started investing heavily in real estate in the early '90's and has done quite well for herself. So sit right down loosen those restraints and have some tea. The next observation might be along at any moment. Ros honey, left is THIS way.

Imagemaker	09 Mar 2004
Quote: like a "voice crying in the wilderness" If the horse's soul has rosy windows, then there must be a cozy fire inside--is the key to the Death card the horse's loving heart? To help the Mad Hatter, I pulled out my Inner Child deck and I'll translate for him. The Alice card is in there somewhere. (My large Rider Waite Death horse does not have pink eyes, however. Conjunctivitus gone!) *excellent tea--Assam?*

firemaiden	09 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Imagemaker If the horse's soul has rosy windows, then there must be a cozy fire inside--is the key to the Death card the horse's loving heart? What fabulous imagery, Imagemaker!!

Imagemaker	09 Mar 2004
Thank you! It seems to me that if, on this card, the people are dead or dying or afraid, and Death rides on, it's the horse and literally his heart that have the strength to keep going forward, to move Awareness into another world beyond this one.

firemaiden	09 Mar 2004
WOW!!!!! that knocked my socks off! *firemaiden lost her boots already, now she is looking for her socks*

Imagemaker	09 Mar 2004
Quote: *firemaiden lost her boots already, now she is looking for her socks* :) Walk on, walk on, Brave Firemaiden, without fashion, without podal-barriers, to the new path of LIFE.

Jewel-ry	09 Mar 2004
Hi all, I can see many of these coincidences. I have another for you. The girl at the bottom dressed in white with the rose crown looks suspiciously like the woman in the Strength card (complete with white robe and flowers!). It looks to me like she shakes away her head in refusal. She is refusing to accept that 'the king is dead'. She is very much her own person and is strong and confident. The white rose in the flag is the same as that carried by the fool who begins a journey that has potential, even though he knows not where it will lead him. Death is coloured black, which is also the colour of potential. So FM, I think yes reintegration, its like starting the journey all over again! J :)

The XIII - Death as finished jig-saw puzzle thread was originally posted on 16 Jul 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.