All the cards have there one opposite ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Aug 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

paulo32	05 Aug 2003
All the cards have there one opposite ? What are they ?

MystiqueMoonlight	05 Aug 2003
Ok I'll bite :D Are you asking a quesion or posing a discussion? Do you mean from a numerological point of view? From a Kabalistic view point? Minors or Majors? I'll make the following suggestion:- Minors:- Kings = 1,4,7 Queens = 2,5,8 Knights = 3,6,9 Pages = 10 Majors:- 1&4, 2&5, 3&6, 7&10, 8&11, 9&12, 13&16, 14&17, 15&18, 19, 20, 21, 0

paulo32	05 Aug 2003
Hello MystiqueMoonlight I fact all the things in nature have opposites: you have the moon and you have the sun you have the water and you have the fire and so on ... so the cards on tarot have also opposites ? what is the opposite of hermit ? what is the opposite of the world ? bye paulo

Macavity	05 Aug 2003
I don't think there are any formal or indeed complete opposites. If one considers particular aspects of the card, e.g. the Hermit's solitude would be "opposed" by cards that suggest partnership: The Lovers... Two of Cups - And indeed the World. There would similarly be cards that reinforce that aspect: High Priestess... Four of Swords etc. But the Hermit is not merely "someone alone" and has other attributes, which would doubtless suggest other opposing or reinforcing cards... All a bit ad-hoc and independent of e.g. card order ;) (see P.S.) Macavity P.S. I don't think that is completely true. There are suggestions that Tarot is based on a number of "vertical and horizontal (and ultimately numerical) relationships" between the cards - but again it could be said to be a bit uhm... ad hoc? :)

MystiqueMoonlight	05 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Macavity There are suggestions that Tarot is based on a number of "vertical and horizontal (and ultimately numerical) relationships" between the cards - but again it could be said to be a bit uhm... ad hoc? :) Ad hoc? This theme of numerology within Tarot has become a hot potato over the last few days :) If the relationships are not numerical (and I'm sure most would agree it is a combination of several types of relationships, which I think is your point Macavity?) then what other influences are there in the Tarot? Is not the numerical relationship one of the more pertinent? So far as opposites, I'd suggest that the Tarot is more a progression than a series of oppositions.

Macavity	06 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by MystiqueMoonlight I'm sure most would agree it is a combination of several types of relationships, which I think is your point Macavity? No Doubt! Don't mind me - I'm probably "temprementally unsuited" for Tarot. :laugh: I feel there is a reasonable case for "designer decks" that ARE based accurately on stated predefined relationships. This probably originates in far too many years fitting theories to cr*ppy data? ;) But then Clive Barratt has (mostly) succeeded in this with his rationalised version of the Crowley-Thoth :P Macavity

Aerin	06 Aug 2003
For me, thinking in terms of opposites would be limiting like black/ white, up/ down whatever rules out everything in between. Also, card meanings do depend on what is around them/ the spread/ etc. Aerin

Trogon	06 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aerin For me, thinking in terms of opposites would be limiting like black/ white, up/ down whatever rules out everything in between. Also, card meanings do depend on what is around them/ the spread/ etc. Would definitely have to agree with this. I feel, especially with Tarot, that there are really very few true "opposites". I believe we (mankind in general) try to make some things into "oposites" so that they are easier for us (again humans in general) can more easily comprehend them. For example... light and darkness. Are these truly opposites? To us they may seem to be... but to another creature which can see at night (such as cats) they are just different. Then again, take a creature which doesn't even need visible light to "see" by... those that use sound (bats) or heat (some snakes)... they don't really care about the presence or abscence of light. But these things are all about perception. What about Tarot? Isn't Tarot all about perception as well... at least on many levels it seems to me to be. We all have a slightly different take on the cards... we percieve them differently. In the example used, of The Hermit... yes... in many respects, he can be about being alone... and there are cards which are about being with others... But then again, a person can be completely alone while standing in the middle of a crowd... or he can be standing by himself at the top of a mountain and be in the best of company. I'm not certain I've explained myself very well... which may or may not be the opposite of a good explanation...

Thirteen	06 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Trogon For example... light and darkness. Are these truly opposites? To us they may seem to be... but to another creature which can see at night (such as cats) they are just different. Excellent point. Even from the "perception" aspect of Tarot cards there is a problem with this question of "opposities"-- Who designed the deck? Oppositions are not universal perceptions, so what is opposite would depend a lot on which deck you were using, on the perceptions of the person who created the deck. What symbols did they use? If they decide that the Hanged man is "Water" and Judgement "Fire" then those would be opposite--but NOT if they decide that the Hanged man is "Neptune" and Judgement is "Pluto." Crowley, I think, would have a different answer to this question than Waite. "Lust" for example, makes you look for a very different opposite to that card than if it's labeled "Strength," yes? And even if you decide on a deck, there's the question of absolute opposites. For example: High Priestess. I would say her opposite is the Magician. But there are very strong, good arguments (discussed at length in other threads) that her opposite is the Hierophant (in earlier decks, she's the Popess, he's the Pope--suggesting opposition--but then, who opposes the Magician? The Hermit maybe? But shouldn't he be paired with the Fool? Both out, searching, one during the day, the other at night, one young, one old....). And then again, there's another very strong argument that the opposite of the Hierophant is the Devil (both sitting on thrones, both with two worshipers at their feet, one saintly spiritual/one grossly material, etc.). In short, there would seem to be no easy parings of opposites in the tarot--if there were, it wouldn't inspire such contemplation and thought. Perhaps the real answer to this question is that every card has it's opposite within itself. Some might say that all you need do is reverse it and there you have its opposite.

MystiqueMoonlight	07 Aug 2003
But then there are some who do not use reversals, so like you say Thirteen the cards themselves may contain this yin yang within. Which is more or less my use of the Tarot. Perhaps the question of opposites posed here is more a query concerning the practicality (science :) ) of Tarot? We cannot of course ignore the esotericism that is within it.

The All the cards have there one opposite ? thread was originally posted on 05 Aug 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.