An Italian Divinatory System?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Aug 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Macavity	23 Aug 2003
Doubtless the LWB (little white book) will continue to be a somewhat contentious issue, but THIS question remains in my mind. If you don't want to give a public opinion, a quick PM would be much appreciated... idle speculation, more than welcome! Preamble: One of my favourite decks is the 1835 Italian di Gumppenberg "Soprafino". This is reproduced (as you doubtless know by now) as the Lo Scarbeo "Classical Tarot" and the almost similar "Ancient Italian" deck. Now, the Classical comes with those darn keywords printed on the card edges and essentially no minor meanings. But, the Ancient Italian LWB has more complete "meanings", obviously based on the SAME keyword system. As often remarked, in reviews, the meanings are NOT really like anything like those usually seen! I suspect the more usual ones are some melange of Etteillla, Waite, you name it... ;) My QUESTION: Do these distinctly different meanings represent evidence of some Italian divinatory system that Lo Scarabeo has found, or are they simply an invention... for "entertainment purposes"? I have rather searched in vain for any addition information or evidence on this, one way or another! Aside: My one solution for reading Classical Tarot minors is indeed to employ the (rather visible!) printed keywords in readings, but use the key associations I use with Thoth-alike pip decks... Hmmmm }) Macavity P.S. It's difficult to choose a category for this post, but I suspect it is more in the divinatory category THIS time... Unlike last time! :)

Cerulean	23 Aug 2003
1. Mary Greer mentioned this and some people might call this part of a 'continental' tradition. I recommend her book with the different keyword meanings or descriptions, so you can pick and choose. 2.You also might like this site, although it's the earlier 1806 or 1810 Neoclassical di Gumppenberg illustrations--the meanings that the authors choose are Thoth! Six of Swords as science is Thoth to me. http://www-uk.aleph-tarot.com/?res=858 3. What is fascinating to me is I have decks from four different Italian publishing companies and the keywords suggested can differ, along with meanings. It depended on the writer. Riccardo Minetti or G. Berti in different Lo Scarabeo historical decks may take up different meanings. Oswald Mezzagani from Il Menghello includes small foldouts in Italian that may have more fortune-telling slants (a dark woman, a fair headed man). Isa Donelli or Laura Tuan from the I Vecchi line may bring up symbolism that is historical or astrological or color-oriented for the majors or minors. The few Il Solleone editions that I have do also veer toward the fortune-telling slants. While I've developed a liking for reading with these decks, the pip numbering and meanings depends more of what I might derive from other authors. Rachel Pollack for instance usually looks at the number three as the synthesis of the preceding one and two. I take four and eight as balancing numbers, with four being structure or the emporer and eight being a reflection of the principle of justice. Five in many systems is an agent of change and ten is culmination or celebration. Long reply...don't know if this helps or confuses! Mari H.

Macavity	23 Aug 2003
Thanks Mari :) Indeed, a comprehensive survey. I sense there must always be a fair bit of latitude in these interpretations - Or at least, I've grown more accepting of this, over time! I think, nevertheless it might be of value to recreate ANY available ideas from the originators of divinatory systems - So, still I persist! Thanks for your thoughts, and links - I need e.g. no excuse to return to my Mary K. Greer. Aside: In following your various and pertinent deck threads, I remark that perhaps I have still to find my ideal. Each of these decks seem to have their individual attractions. But I'm still aspiring to (broadly) a Soprafino type, so I might get something like an 1835 Meneghello, Della Rocca repro, and, at least circumvent the keywords anyway! Always subject to availibility, of course. ;) Macavity

The An Italian Divinatory System? thread was originally posted on 23 Aug 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.