Do you read with blank cards?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Aug 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

littlegreen	03 Aug 2003
Does anyone here read with (EDIT: A FULL DECK OF) blank cards?

lawguy51	03 Aug 2003
No, but sometimes with a blank head ;) LG51

Dark Inquisitor	03 Aug 2003
Do you mean an entire deck of blank cards , or just one or two blank cards in a normal deck? I have one deck that came with 3 blank cards in it & I leave them all in for readings. Makes it interesting. I take it as a sign of the mysterious, the up in the air, the unknowable, the unexpected. However, when Holmes reads & gets a blank card, he stops the whole reading & tells you are not meant to know anything more. Tarotphelia

Elle	03 Aug 2003
Hmmm...I would do what Hiolmes does - stop when I reach a blank. Question: What is the purpose of reading "blanks"? Might as well stare someone straight in the eye and find much more... Warmest, Elle

littlegreen	04 Aug 2003
I mean an entire deck of blanks. I know a few readers who do. I was wonderiong if there were any readers on here who read with a deck of blank cards.

Morganna	04 Aug 2003
I have heard of this as well. A full deck of 78 blank cards, laid out in various spreads. Interesting, but something I would never do.

Emily	04 Aug 2003
I've never heard of reading with a blank deck before, I don't think I could do it - If I started to stare a blank white cards it'd probably turn into a scrying session or my imagination would take over :)

full deck	04 Aug 2003
One would have to have alot of focus and practice visualization of the cards then. It's possible I suppose. The person who did this would either be a real fool or one scary case! P.S. I mean a "real fool" in one who is a natural at doing such, a real "mystery of God", not an "idiot" fool.

Macavity	04 Aug 2003
Sounds fine. I wonder though... When does this cease to be Tarot? - If I steal one of the cards, would it be missed? ;) Aside: I do play around with "cards" with just a Roman numeral (majors) and Arabic numeral + suite (minors) for practice... I find that (bizarrely) useful... Macavity Now - If I can get these Grey Cats to stand in a celtic cross for a moment... :P

Little Baron	04 Aug 2003
Never heard of this idea before. Would you relate them to the tarot structure? Maybe a deck of different coloured cards might work for me on this level; different shades. I would find that interesting. Yab

Le_Corsair	04 Aug 2003
you could have a lot of fun with this concept, depending on the reader's sense of humor and the sort of querant that shows up. DISCLAIMER: HUMOR ZONE. IF EASILY OFFENDED, AVERT EYES. "Hmm. The cards are a mystery today!" "Um Hm! Hmmm. Oh, NO! This is TERRIBLE!" "The cards indicate you owe someone money. You should pay up, you tightwad." "I'm drawing a blank!" "This is the Erotic Tarot of Manara. What, can't you tell?" "The cards indicate snow. Or sugar. Or you're going to paint something white. Hey, come back!" "Whattaya mean, you aren't paying for a reading with blank cards? A reading's a reading!" "The great god Umbrellae the Obnoxious says that you will have a good day!" "Win some, lose some. She would have divorced you anyway." "Wow, that's the first time I've seen that many Death cards!" "If you were a member of the secret Hokum Bunkum, you would see these cards, too!" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bob :THERM:

Diana	04 Aug 2003
Nonsense. How on earth could a deck of blank cards be called Tarot cards? I personally don't believe anyone reads TAROT with blank cards. Although I suppose it is possible to divine with anything. Blank cards are not Tarot cards. So this whole thread is in the wrong section...... And where would one order these cards from anyway? TarotGarden? Amazon? And are their backs also blank or do they have ugly/pretty backs to them?

Umbrae	04 Aug 2003
Umbrae the Oppressive, mouthpiece of Ooolatek the Seditious One who tells only lies is about to speak. Tremble ye whiney-puke heretics…and ye know who ye are… Deal the cards face down. Begin turning the cards face up. Try (by not trying) to finish the reading without flipping the cards over. It’s not card reading, it’s divination. It’s reading between the cards, listening to the voice of your gods. It’s about living from the heart and not the mind.

Aerin	04 Aug 2003
One thing I have done, for myself, that may be related: In a traffic jam/ waiting in a queue/ whatever I have asked a question and visualised one card, or sometimes a 3 card spread in my mind. I just mentally turn over cards from a deck (the Rider Waite because I know it best) and allow the images to come to me. Would using a blank deck be the same... except with something physical to fix on? I started this as an exercise to help me learn the cards better, having said which I have had some good insights this way. I think it is just that my unconscious likes pictures, so it finds it easy to communicate with me like this. I'd feel very uncomfortable doing it for someone else though, since I do not consider myself to be psychic. If someone wanted me to that would be different, it would be weird though. Aerin

Le_Corsair	04 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana And where would one order these cards from anyway? TarotGarden? Amazon? And are their backs also blank or do they have ugly/pretty backs to them? Diana, US Games sells blank decks, and I have also seen them on Ebay on a daily basis. I imagine that the ones there are the US Games decks, which come with a "Tarotee" back, which is the ugly blue plaid back currently used on the US Games RWS deck. They market them for people who wish to draw their own deck on the cards themselves. Bob :THERM

firemaiden	05 Aug 2003
I once did a really great reading with beer coasters (the blank side)... as I turned over each coaster, the "querant" and I said what card it was. It's a blast when the cards are blank. Each card could be any card. It could be an amazing experiment to stare at the card and see which tarot image pops up in your mind. I mean, its amazing enough to see what pops up when the images are there. I prefer there to be some kind of image, though... I like the Margarete Petersen deck, it is sometimes so abstract, I feel I am scrying in clouds.

DarkElectric	05 Aug 2003
Although, I too wonder if it could actually be called a "Tarot" reading. I think it'd be more in the realm of intuitive/psychic perceptual. One's mind might form tarot related images, because of the versimilitude of cartomantic form. I should try this, and see what I get. With my artistic capability, a blank deck would something I could successfully design. Blank on both sides, actually. Actually, I can make it out of construction paper, and see what happens doing a reading based on perception of colour. If I get motivated enough to do this, I'll post the results. But I wouldn't feel right calling it "Tarot", so it'll probably be in the "Divination" thread.

SingingTarot	05 Aug 2003
And what about a Tarot deck with no cards at all. One could pretend the cards are there (or not) and read this way. Alice

firemaiden	05 Aug 2003
Salut Alice! that would be more to the point, wouldn't it, in the art of minimalism. I think if tarot is a tool to develop the skill of chanelling the unconscious stream of something or other -- beginning with cards, then moving to blank cards-- well then, moving to no cards at all would actually be the goal. ;)

Minderwiz	05 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Le_Corsair Diana, US Games sells blank decks, and I have also seen them on Ebay on a daily basis. I imagine that the ones there are the US Games decks, which come with a "Tarotee" back, which is the ugly blue plaid back currently used on the US Games RWS deck. They market them for people who wish to draw their own deck on the cards themselves. Bob :THERM Hey Bob, doesn't that mean that they must have an equal number of RWS decks with blank backs? }) If you ask them nicely they might be able to give you one and you could put your own design on the back.

baba-prague	05 Aug 2003
might be quite interesting - however, I think I'll leave it to someone else! p s I actually have 80 blank cards as our printer made them for us to test the card stock for our deck. Well, maybe one day I will try a reading - I'll certainly report back if I do. I have a feeling it will be a bit dull though: The Cross - blank crossed with blank Base - blank reversed The past - a blank The near future - a blank (that sounds a bit scary in fact) etc etc Reading the reversals might be quite a challenge LOL

Marion	05 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by baba-prague Reading the reversals might be quite a challenge LOL omg I just about choked when I read that! All this time I spent teaching myself to use reversals effectively, and now this! sniff.

Cerulean	05 Aug 2003
You forgot the mirror reversal Blankety-blank--knalb-yteknalB

firemaiden	05 Aug 2003
..problem is, our future, and the unknown is always a blank.. the tarot is sposed to help with that...

Little Baron	05 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by SingingTarot [b] And what about a Tarot deck with no cards at all. One could pretend the cards are there (or not) and read this way. It would be a damn site cheaper, I can tell you!!! No more trips to the local tarot dealer!!! LOL

littlegreen	05 Aug 2003
Thanks a lot everybody who contributed something useful... ..but, Eeek! I'm off - been scared-off by the in-fighting ;-)

Macavity	05 Aug 2003
This thread put me in mind of composer John Cage's (in)famous 4'33" (of silence). It's a shame the images have dissapeared on this site. http://www.azstarnet.com/~solo/4min33se.htm But, (sure enough?), there are several references to the I-Ching and Tarot as influences! :D Macavity Quote: William Fetterman helped Cage recollect that 4'33" was not written exclusively with the I Ching (which was probably used to determine the "note" durations) but also with the use of Tarot cards. I wrote it note by note, just like the Music of Changes [1951] . That's how I knew how long it was when I added the notes up. It was done like a piece of music, except there were no sounds -- but there were durations. It was dealing these -- shuffling them, on which there were durations, and then dealing them -- and using the Tarot to know how to use them. The card-spread was a complicated one, something big. [question: why did you use the tarot rather than the i ching?] Probably to balance East with West. I didn't use the [actual] Tarot cards, I was just using those ideas; and I was using the Tarot because it was Western, it was the most well-known chance thing known in the West of that oracular nature.58 Cage pointed to this particular Tarot card formation when shown a number of possible configurations: etc.

Umbrae	05 Aug 2003
Wow…John Cage. I had to think. Did I not mention him in a prior post? And would parts be relevant? Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae …Best put some thought into the ‘Whys’. It is a bigger topic than spreads . If you do not know, why…than what do youally know? So why do you read . I hate Jackson Pollack; he stated his art expressed his deep, primitive, and feeling self. Well bully for him. His art was an extension of his ego. Like a million other Madonna and child’s already painted. John Cage spent four years flipping a coin to write a piece, precisely to remove ego from the art. (side note: Most folks miss the point of 4’33”). Someone once wrote, “Tarot cards are a tool for gaining insight into the mind, in cases where normal introspection is blocked by repression and self-censorship mechanisms… So why do you read . If you read long enough – things will begin to occur. So why do you read? And if you read long enough…who needs the blank cards? Entrails, the coagulation of cheese…smoke…the way the ale bubbles in the glass, the breaking of the rack of pool balls…the sound of a branch caressing the window. 4' 33" is about listening to God.

full deck	05 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden . . . that would be more to the point, wouldn't it, in the art of minimalism. I think if tarot is a tool to develop the skill of chanelling the unconscious stream of something or other -- beginning with cards, then moving to blank cards-- well then, moving to no cards at all would actually be the goal. ;) That is an interesting idea. I suppose you have a point since I work hard on different visualization techniques and have been developing some methodology but it is really not easy to do. I do work away from a deck too but in a more limited fashion. I admire anyone who could make this happen and I suppose it is possible, given the nature of humanity, which seems to always aspire to what is deemed impossible.

full deck	06 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Wow…John Cage. I had to think. Did I not mention him in a prior post? And would parts be relevant? And if you read long enough…who needs the blank cards? Entrails, the coagulation of cheese…smoke…the way the ale bubbles in the glass, the breaking of the rack of pool balls…the sound of a branch caressing the window. 4' 33" is about listening to God. I have found that much of what Cage has written ("silence" for example) could be applied easily to Tarot. One piece he wrote begins with the various pieces of written music that one must choose from in order to create or realize the score for that particular performance. This is an excellent example of the transformation of the Fool through the Empress or the descent of the fool (potentia) into the world of form (empress). When one creates, they also destroy -- the formless potential that exists before choices are made and the descent is performed. This also speaks of "death" and it's message of transformation and beginning. One can find some of the same symbolism in some of the poetry of W.B. Yeats (if my memory serves me correctly). The only problem I ever had with Cage was that, for all of his clever ideas, many times the music just did not sound good. This sort of disdain for what sounds "good" as opposed to the world of "beautiful ideas" has cause alot of ugly music to have been written in the 20th Century. Sometimes theory is just that!

baba-prague	06 Aug 2003
I don't think this really is in-fighting (well, I hope not). I think the idea of reading with blank cards is valid, but also something you can have a bit of fun with. As someone who devoted my whole life for almost a year (I mean my whole life - we working seven days a week until about ten or eleven each night) to designing card images to be useful, beautiful and meaningful, I have to raise an eyebrow at the idea of a blank deck. However, of course it doesn't offend me and I do think that it's amazing how different people can read in ways you never would have thought of (I just had two long talks with someone here who reads totally differently from me - we both enjoyed the conversation and agreed to try each other's approach, and also to exchange readings, just for the pleasure of learning a new viewpoint). I think at worst we are having a bit of fun, at best we're also learning something. Don't be scared off - come back!

full deck	07 Aug 2003
Another consideration that this thread poses is that when one talks about Tarot symbolism and the "fool's journey" as depicted through the major arcana, many don't seem to catch on that the journey is a treadmill, a self-contained loop and that at sometime, the loop its must be transcended, but then some can't *imagine* the world without the context but then *what* is the context and *who* is it for? Anyway, Baba-prague was killing me with her posts (hehe). Very funny indeed!

firemaiden	07 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by full deck the journey is a treadmill, a self-contained loop and that at sometime, the loop its must be transcended, but then some can't *imagine* the world without the context but then *what* is the context and *who* is it for? This made me think right away of the Mobius Strip. The loop is continuously being transcended, and yet not. But when? and how?

Alex	07 Aug 2003
Given some of the posts in this thread, as well as in other threads in aeclectic and elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of you reading with a deck of blank cards. Whatever, but I agree with Diana, at least don't call it "Tarot". Alex.

Macavity	07 Aug 2003
And since there's no (external) random element is it really even divination? Can card "selection" be a totally internal process? })

Aerin	07 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Macavity And since there's no (external) random element is it really even divination? Can card "selection" be a totally internal process? }) When I call up cards from my unconscious, then I just call it 'my unconscious talking to me in symbols'. If you were that way inclined, and pretty sure you had clear channels, you might call it 'the higher conscious talking to me'. Aerin

full deck	07 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Macavity And since there's no (external) random element is it really even divination? Can card "selection" be a totally internal process? }) ". . . L'Immaginazione, ossia l'azione nel profondo (imum ago), può aiutarci a concepire nella nostra coscienza i modi di essere che ci possono portare oltre i limiti del nostro carcere. Si deve, però, considerare accuratamente la profonda differenza che distingue l'Immaginazione dalla fantasia." - from http://www.grandeoriente.it/studi/ipertxt/immag1.htm . . . a site of the Grand Orient of Italy at Palazzo Giustiniani (Masons). Like it says, "consider the distinctions between the "immagination" and "fantasy". It's the same thing Mammonides talks about when he talks about a prophet must have "immagination". Using Tarot as a means to explore the difference is a useful thing (IMHO).

firemaiden	07 Aug 2003
Let me see, do you mind if I attempt a translation of your first quote? " The imagination (or alternatively the actions of the unconscious depths) can help us to conceive of, in our conscious mind, modes of being which may carry us beyond our carapace (the prison of our physical body). However, one must accurately consider the profound difference which distinguishes imagination from fantasy" Well, then, what is the difference between imagination and fantasy?

full deck	08 Aug 2003
I don't speak Italian but, thanks to the miracle that is Babelfish, I translated much of what was on the Italian Masonic site (out of curiosity). I believe that the distinction they allude to is as follows (my understanding may be a bit off . . . maybe): The imagination and fantasy are somewhat similar and have been lumped together by some sources but there is a subtle and important difference between the two. Imagination employs a framework of reference based upon physical laws and reason that is based in factual knowledge, if not fact and does not so much create some fantastic thing as it does ask "what if . . ." inferring new possibilities from what is known. Fantasy is more so the free flight of thought, bound by no rhyme or reason, who's direction is purely arbitrary. Thus myself and others might do meditation that uses the archetypes and symbols found in the Tarot as a starting point to try and explore the nature of reality itself. I say this because reality is perceived mostly as the product of our five senses. Even so, we know through mathematics that there are things that exist that are beyond physical description or observation but can be described or predicted with the aid of mathematics. Thus one can not put complete faith in their senses, rather the goal is to expand one's awareness beyond their physical senses. Do follow the links on the aforementioned Italian Masonic site (http://www.grandeoriente.it/) for more information as to what they espouse. Personally, I suspect they are on the right track. As for real understanding into these matters -- I'm still working on that one.

Macavity	08 Aug 2003
Well, aside from individual terminology, I suspect it all begins to tie up a bit better? With hinesight, I should correct one of my assertions above... that reading blank cards isn't divination. It probably is! ;) From further reading, here and elsewhere, Personally, I'm beginning to categorise things into: Objective (analytical) and more Subjective (inspirational) divination methods. The former relies (to some extent) on traditional (historical) references, "blending rational and intellectual knowledge with intuitional, inspired knowledge" into a resultant meaning. Examples are Tarot, Runes, Astrology... The latter is where "part of the mind" is allowed to receive information from an inside or outside source "via direct experience of inner and outer dimensions" (sic) sometimes termed "the unconcious mind and/or superconcious". Examples are clairvoyance, clairaudience, psychometry and mediumship (channeling). Doubtless these methods are often combined in varying degrees! Well, Ya never know! (With inspiration from various external sources }) ) Macavity

Umbrae	09 Aug 2003
In Rachel Pollack’s Seventy-Eight degrees of Wisdom, page 276, she states. “The true psychic readers, who are rarer than many people think, can simply take a few cards from anywhere in the deck, lay them out in no particular pattern, and use them as trigger for going into a trance or simply for releasing the information from unconscious sources.” Perhaps the true goal is to move beyond the cards, and the spread.

jmd	09 Aug 2003
This thread touches upon ONE important aspect of the uses of Tarot: its divinatory usage. In that sense, blank cards may certainly be used - and they may even be used by someone who is quite immersed in Tarot as though they were Tarot. For this the imaginative faculty, different to mere fantasy in the precision of the former, renders in the mind's eye the individual cards in their various locations in the spread. A deck of blank cards, however, is not a deck of Tarot, and Tarot's other important uses can again only be used if one is already so familiar with the deck that it is not blank cards, but mere frames in which the cards are, again, imaginatively constructed. For this, of course, earlier recourse to a deck of actual Tarot needs to have been carefully studied and worked with.

samreid26	15 Aug 2003
What are "blank cards?" I don't get it. :OL

Chronata	19 Aug 2003
O.K ...I have just read through this entire thread, and I am almost too afraid to post! So I will just come out and say it! Yes! I am decidedly crazy! Yes! I have read with an entire deck of blank cards! Why would I do such a strange thing, you might ask? What exactly is the point, you may be wondering? well...I did it as an experiment in...oh, I don't know...psychic awareness, I guess... The idea came to me after reading a fantasy novel, (Charles DeLint, I think it was...) Where someone had a deck of magical blank cards where the pictures would appear as they were turned over. I was just gaining some ground with Scrying techniques, and decided to try it with cards...since I had been well versed in symbolism and tarot, but very new to scrying. The first few times, there was a whole lot of nothing...but then something strange began to happen... I would put down a shiny white card...and it would show me something...sometimes a tarot image, but more often just symbols or a series of images and pictures. Then I would write everything down, and interpret later, when my mind wasn't so in the "receiving mode" anymore. No, I guess it isn't really tarot, although I have gotten tarot images (some from real decks that exist...and others from decks that do not...yet...as far as I know!) The reason I used an entire deck, even though I only spread out 3 to 9 cards, is because of a 20 year habit of having a full deck of tarot in my hands...it just gets me in the right mood, makes it seem like just another typical reading. A ritual thing... Yep, I realize it may be a little strange...but it is an experiment that I can recommend to anyone wanting to make that jump from the images on the cards to the images in your head...

Umbrae	20 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Alex Given some of the posts in this thread, as well as in other threads in aeclectic and elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of you reading with a deck of blank cards. On page 13 of Strategic Intuition for the 21st Century – Tarot for Business by James Wanless Ph.D. he discusses reading tarot without using a deck – at all. He states, “The deck becomes an inner-wisdom book that we can turn our thoughts and mind’s eye to for “right action” at any time.” Now there, is food for thought…

The Do you read with blank cards? thread was originally posted on 03 Aug 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.