One future or two futures to find ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Aug 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

paulo32	18 Aug 2003
" There is a multitude of futures, and the tarot will show one of these (okay, maybe more than one at times) futures. " Ravenswing Does the tarot tell one future or a multitude of futures ? For example i have my future, and you have your future, so the tarot will tell the a interact future : my future + your future = the future This final future is what the tarot will tell ? Bye Paulo

Thirteen	18 Aug 2003
The question is problematic as you don't indicate what makes a "future." Here's an example. I do a reading. I tell the person, "Someone at your job has been giving you trouble, but that problem is going to work out in your favor. Also, you've been having trouble with your mother; if you don't confront her, this will get worse. Good luck seems to be coming your way for next month. You'll still have to juggle your finances, however....." Did I tell them one future, or four? I made predictions on their work, their family, their luck and finances. In a given reading, I could also, depending on the cards and the spread, have discussed their health, their love life, their career. I could have gone into children as well as parents, friends as well as lovers and co-workers, a crisis of faith as well as money matters. Are these all one future for this one person or many? And this doesn't even begin to touch on the added future(s) of those people who are going to come in contact with them. In answer to what I think your question is, by the way: yes. If I say, "You're going to meet a tall, dark stranger," then I'm predicting a future for the "stranger" as well--that they're going to meet my querent. Quote: " There is a multitude of futures, and the tarot will show one of these (okay, maybe more than one at times) futures. " Here is what really matters--what Ravenswing really meant when she said that: I say to a querent, "If you don't confront your mother, things will get worse." The querent now has 2 futures: confront their mother, and things get better OR don't confront mom and let things get worse. They now KNOW both futures. THIS is what Ravenswing meant by multiple futures. It's multiple possiblities. But, in the end, there will be only ONE future. Either the person I'm reading for confonts Mom (and things improve) or not (and things get worse), right? So the multitudes of futures all streamline down to one in the end (by the time they reach the present).

Marion	18 Aug 2003
And, fighting with your mother can make you grumpy at work and make your relations with your colleagues worse, so you get fired and then you really have money troubles. I am not kidding, that's how it works. The 'future' is actually a read of the intertwined possibilities of the querent's life. The fact that many of us here at AT occasionally get glimpses of at least the near future does suggest that present actions and feelings are affecting future outcomes.

Indigo_lady	18 Aug 2003
The tarot is going to tell you what you need to know It's going to tell you the future that's ahead of you in the path you are going, and obviously considering the path the people around you are going since, lets face it, nobody is an island "the path you are going" meaning the decisions you have taken so far in your life up to the present, how do they influence your future... It tells you about one future as Thirteen pointed out, because at some point it becomes one (although this is starting to sound like a paradox)... and if you think about it probably according to Jung all our futures are part and expressions of one, if there is such a thing as collective consciousness

Elle	18 Aug 2003
That's why a card will keep repeating - if you don't change attitude or course, the tarot will keep reminding you. Warmest, Elle

Thirteen	18 Aug 2003
Ooo! Most excellent points Marion, Indigo and Elle! Paulo, think BACK TO THE FUTURE--you do one thing, you get one future, do another, you get a very different future. And whatever you do CAN affect the futures of those around you--whether or not you fight back (and the person you didn't fight stays a bully or not), who you married and why you married them (because you admired them--or felt sorry for them). On and on.

paulo32	18 Aug 2003
Hello Come on guys i canīt fight with my mum : She is a restling fighter. From that I must agree with you: in the end, there will be only one future. Bye Paulo

paulo32	22 Aug 2003
Ok Thirteen Let me give you another point of view. For example I buy a newspaper here in Portugal that have already a spread for a week for me. Now imagine the spread had the fool as unique card, for a week. If I want to invest on stock market believe that I never do on that week. What I’m mean is : No matter what I do on that week I will lose money, so I can change the possible future, and the future is already made for me on that week. Bye Paulo

Elle	22 Aug 2003
Sorry, I know you are waiting for Thirteen's reply, but please allow me to butt-in here for one second: Just because you pull The Fool as an outcome does not mean it covers all areas of you life like a blanket. It references a specific situation or course of action - not the whole "shabang" (American Slang for the whole thing). Otherwise you might not leave you house for a week, thinking you'll "fall off a cliff" or something. Warmest, Elle

paulo32	22 Aug 2003
Hello helle Well of course any one can answer. Ok so I made a spread for a week to cover all areas: love, money, etc etc and this time appear the worse card of tarot. So I want to invest on that week again and I know that will lose money. The conclusion is : my actions on that week will never change the possible future. Bye Paulo

Indigo_lady	22 Aug 2003
well you know what they say Only fools falls inlove...

paulo32	22 Aug 2003
lol

Indigo_lady	22 Aug 2003
This is too good... 2 minutes later and this song comes up on the radio CHAIN OF FOOLS Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain of fools For five long years I thought you were my man But I found out I'm just a link in your chain. You got me where you want me I ain't nothin' but your fool You treated me mean Ooh, you treated me cruel Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain of fools Every chain has got a weak link And I might be weak, child But I'll give you strength You told me to leave you alone My father said, "Come on home" My doctor said, "Take it easy" But your lovin' is much too strong I'm welded to your... Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain of fools Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain of fools One of these mornings the chain is gonna break But up until then I'm gonna take all I can take (repeat and fade): Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain of fools Chain, chain, chain (chain, chain, chain) Chain of fools

Elle	22 Aug 2003
Ah what perfect cosmic timing!!! Warmest, Elle

Thirteen	23 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by paulo32 What I’m mean is : No matter what I do on that week I will lose money, so I can change the possible future, and the future is already made for me on that week. Yes and no. You asked the deck, "Should I invest in the stock market this week?" The Fool Card comes up. You appear to be reading this card literally as a yes or no question--as telling you "Don't be a Fool"--or, more bluntly, "No! Don't invest! You'll lose money!" But examine it closer. The Fool gazes up at the sky, and doesn't see the cliff. So what the card is really saying is: "If you gaze up at the sky" (speculate on all the money you could make) "you could fall off a cliff!" (lose lots of money). This is not a "NO! Don't invest!"--Rather it's a bit of smart advise: "If you must play the market, don't be a Fool!" So the card is actually telling you to watch your step, investagate the stocks carefully, take only good advise, etc. The only future it predicts is that if you don't do this, you will put yourself at risk of losing money. But it doesn't tell you "No, don't invest." It gives you, in fact, three, possible futures, depending on how you take the card's advice: You don't invest (you don't make money, but you don't lose it either), you invest wisely (you make or don't lose money), you invest foolishly (you put yourself at risk of losing lots of money). Now, if you asked "How's the stock market going to do today?" and got The Tower, that would be another thing. I'd see that as a prediction of a crash, and I'd most certainly avoid investing.

paulo32	23 Aug 2003
Thantīs for your answer So let’s resume: You have cards that tell you that you can change your future And you have cards that tell you no mater what you do you canīt change you future. From that I understand that we have two futures: one you can change one you can not change Bye Paulo

Keslynn	23 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by paulo32 From that I understand that we have two futures: one you can change one you can not change Hey paulo, This post has been raising a lot of interesting points. I would like to say though that I personally don't believe that there is a future you cannot change. Even if there are events that you cannot control, such as the stock market crashing, you still have the ultimate choice as to how you will react to it. As in Thirteen's example, even if you get the Tower implying that the stock market will crash, you choose what you do in reaction to that information. Do you withdraw all your money and make the stock market worse in a sense? Do you keep hold of certain key stocks to ride out the difficulty? Do you keep all of them and lose big? Do you invest after the crash to ride the market on its way back up? It's your decision. Depending on your strategy, it could be any of those 4 or another choice altogether (especially since I don't know much about stocks). So while you can't change outside factors, there are certainly things you can still do about them. I still think you get to choose your future. The cards just give you advice to help you. I take them as suggestions rather than concrete predictions. However, there are definitely people who feel that they have no control over their lives and will take predictions as absolute truths. When their lives come out exactly as the cards said, it's because they did nothing to change things. But I think there's always the option to change if you see and use it. :) Kes

Thirteen	23 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by paulo32 You have cards that tell you that you can change your future And you have cards that tell you no mater what you do you canīt change you future. Um, not quite: You have cards that tell you: "You can make this kind of future if you take this advice." In otherwords, cards that make recommendations on what sort of future you can create for yourself GIVEN what you want to do. You don't pull the Fool card and hear it say to you, "Quick! Invest in the stock market!"--YOU ask, "Should I invest in the stock market?"--so it's YOU who decided that you might want to do that. YOU create that possiblity in the first place, right? All you're asking the cards is, "What might the results be if I do?" The cards answer by giving you likely possiblities, and, again, you decide. Think of it this way: You're walking a path and it splits into several different roads. You decide to take the road to your far left. You ask the cards, "Where might I get to if I take this road?"--the cards tell you all the different places you can get to if you take it. Let's say, "Germany, France, Belgium." It's not like you were destined to go to, say, France, and the cards offered you a way to change that. You thought about heading down a road and the cards said, "One of the places this road will lead you is France. Do you want to go there?" You MAKE the future. You decide which road to take and then you decide if France is where you want to go. See? On the other hand, the cards can say, "Something big is going to happen outside of your influence or control." In this case, the Stock Market is going to crash, or the road has been washed out and there's no getting to France or any of those other places by taking that road. In this case, no, you, personally, can't change that future.

paulo32	24 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Keslynn Hey paulo, This post has been raising a lot of interesting points. I would like to say though that I personally don't believe that there is a future you cannot change. :) Kes Hello Keslynn Well I think you canīt change your future dead, you can onlly avoid it, for somme time. Then he appear in your live. Yes Thirteen i understand your point of view Bye Paulo

paulo32	24 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Keslynn Hey paulo, This post has been raising a lot of interesting points. I would like to say though that I personally don't believe that there is a future you cannot change. :) Kes Hello Keslynn Well I think you canīt change your future dead, you can onlly avoid it, for somme time. Then he appear in your live. Yes Thirteen i understand your point of view Bye Paulo

The One future or two futures to find ? thread was originally posted on 18 Aug 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.