the tarot can predict the future ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Aug 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

paulo32	07 Aug 2003
"every tarot reader has the responsibility to inform their querents that the cards do not dictate the future, it is still the person invloved who decides his/her future. what appears in tarot readings are only *probable outcomes* " jog1118 Why tarot predict the future, the probable outcomes ? how he can do it ? what is the mystic in the tarot ? bye paulo

lunalafey	07 Aug 2003
Yes the tell of the future. My experience with this was confussion though. But that had to do with the nature of the question & the timing of the future. I did a 12 card reading 3 cards 'heart' 3 past 3 present 3 future. The only cards that did not 'nail' the situation where the future, but I had to wait to see what the cards saw. The cards did not seem (at the time) to directly associate with the issue. Very confussing. 5 years later, something BIG happens in the situation that prompted the reading. I went back & reread the cards. The 3 future cards spelled out the BIG something. I want to tell the 'story' a bit more in depth, but it is VERY late for me & the comp is in the bedroom & reading my notes would mean turning on a light.....Sshh....they're sleeping..... If ya' wanna know specifics, happy to provide.....let me know & I will tell the story in a longer version...

Elle	07 Aug 2003
I would love to hear the story if and when you have time to tell it... Elle

Red Emma	07 Aug 2003
Lunalafey, I love long stories about people's lives. Especially when a very good story teller has all ready established a bit of suspense. Goddess Bless.

Diana	07 Aug 2003
Paulo: I don't think anyone really knows for sure how the Tarot works, and how it predicts the future, or possible outcomes. Everyone has their own theory. Some people believe the Tarot only taps into our sub-conscience mind which already knows all the possible futures anyway. Some people believe that it is spirits who guide the cards and their answers. Some people believe it is just a question of common sense and logic. Others will just say "we don't know, but we do know it works". Sometimes in life there are different possibilities depending on the actions we take. And the Tarot will reveal these. There are times in life when whatever you do, nothing will change the outcome. (All you can do then is to change your attitude towards the outcome). And then people say "Tarot predicts the future". And that makes some people scared....... because it is scary to know that sometimes we cannot change things. Especially when they are tragic or sad. Have I answered your question a little bit? Or have I just gone and repeated old cliches that you knew already?

paulo32	07 Aug 2003
hello well Diana why is a question of logic ? why not a ilogic question that we can´t aprend or understan? and why we understan that question ? bye

Diana	07 Aug 2003
Paulo: I am wondering if you understand the English expression "a question of.....". When one says in English "it is a question of.....", what we mean is "it concerns.....". The word "question" in this expression is not to be taken literally. Do you see what I mean? I can rephrase my sentence to read "some people believe that Tarot is just logic and common sense". Does that make more sense? (English is such a difficult language, but not as difficult as Portuguese!!!!)

paulo32	07 Aug 2003
lol I fact i´m now see the x-files on FOX tv,and also reading a book, as also writing on this forum, so i maybe miss somme thing or the meaning of the words. I see your point of view Diana. I mean : has we don´t understand how the tarot work, that process is ilogic to us. So is a ilogic process and have nothing to do with logic. Is mystic process and that leaves to my question: what is the mystic in the tarot ? bye paulo

jog1118	07 Aug 2003
hey! hey! hey! somebody quoted me (jog1118 gets an ego boost) :D i just would like to pitch in my views about the the mystery of tarot: first off...tarot is a mystery...and a mystery cannot be explained (however we squeeze our brains dry) but here's my side of the coin: i do not believe in chance nor destiny...what we reap, we sow. its the same with the cards, no matter who shuffles / cuts / deal the cards it will always portray the current situation and probable outcomes for the querent. its as if the whole universe prepares for every single tarot reading done everyday in order to present an accurate picture. but i have to confess...i also believe that spirits can tap into the tarot and influence (may be positive or negative) the reader and the querent...that is why i practice shielding before every reading (but thats another story...) :smoker:

LittleWing	08 Aug 2003
I do not believe the future can be predicted - by anyone!! - as it has not yet happened. I see the tarot as a way to enable us to see things more clearly, and make more informed choices that shape the future. But I have no answers, no one has. You are right - it is a mystery. And i accept this for what it is - unknown.

Diana	08 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by LittleWing I do not believe the future can be predicted - by anyone!! Perhaps not by anyone, but the Tarot has revealed it to me many times..... And I know of people, and one is a friend of mine, who can see the future..... as clearly as if it is were taking place in front of their eyes. Tarot is a mystery to me too. And at the same time, it is so familiar. That is what I find so strange sometimes. How can a mystery seem so natural? When I "play" with my cards, it seems as natural as drinking water when I'm thirsty. Perhaps Tarot quenches our spiritual thirst.

paulo32	08 Aug 2003
Hello I agree with diana, i fact i have predict the future of somme things,without the tarot. Not complex things, but belive the future is already made. Maybe is that the mystic on the tarot: it is so natural that is a mystery. bye paulo

LittleWing	08 Aug 2003
I have predicted the future - and it has been accurate, ..... but i have also predicted it ... and it not happened as i thought. So we are talking about coincidence. In reading with the cards - many cards can be relevant - i sometimes think 'wow, that is spot on', but then if several other cards had shown up - they would have also been spot on. Dont get me wrong - i love tarot - and i am not a sceptic - i am just throwing my opinion out there.

Diana	08 Aug 2003
LittleWing: You talk of coincidence. I don't believe that Tarot has anything to do with coincidence. To me, if my Tarot readings turn out "wrong", then I tend to think that I interpreted the cards wrong. I tell my friends and my slow-growing clientele (too slow :( ), that the cards never lie. But that I cannot guarantee that I will always be able to read them with absolute accuracy...... (Perhaps that is why my clientele is growing so slowly! :D ).

LittleWing	08 Aug 2003
To be honest - I do not have such a firm opinion of how accurate the cards are when they show up - as mentioned before it is a mystery - so for me there is an element of 'are they right? arent they right?' - but in my interpretations, i am normally either pretty sure, or a bit confused and blocked. So i believe it it my intuition and how i interpret the cards that do the work. Everyone's opinion is different. There is no one that can say for sure, co we dont KNOW!! - like so much in life :) Good luck with building the clients Diana :)

lunalafey	08 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by LittleWing There is no one that can say for sure.....we dont KNOW!! until it happens In the reading I mentioned above(done in '98), my original reading of the future was very confussing, I was stuck on applying it to myself for some reason, but I knew it was me who did not understand the cards. Then a few months ago, a turning point....then I understood the cards.....what they told was true.... and I'm working on the story for ya' elle & emma this story might give you some food for thought there littlewing...

LittleWing	08 Aug 2003
My point still is that no one knows for sure. Just cos it has worked for you does not mean to say it is universally true.

suzyspellbound	08 Aug 2003
Intersting thread- not sure I have anything usefull to add, its just it reminded me of a quote I read recently about how if you know the past and the present you know the future! I am using this theory as a piont of investigation for research into design creativity. If you have any views on this please feel free to discuss or pm me! Or just ignore me, I know I may seem a bit random!

Macavity	08 Aug 2003
I think one has to be impressed how so many texts studiously avoid the question? :laugh: Aside from some obscure terminology, I found myself more in agreement with a certain "heathen" writer. Apparently, past, present and future is more of a Judeo-Christian concept (he would say that?) and, as a "triunal temporal" concept, leads, via St. Augustin et el., on to... predestination? But those ancient Germanic Heathen chaps were made of sterner stuff... For them, there was NO (sic) future! }) Or at least conceptually. According to Ruarik Grimnisson in his (imo, excellent) "Rune Rede" book, they believed in: Urd : That which "has become" - the immutable past, which has objective reality. Verhandi : That which "is becomming" - the fluctuating present, which is subjective reality and Skuld : That which "should be" (coming) - the unmanifested present (future), [but] which is dependent on the interplay of the two other functions... Knowing little of this, I'm still rather impressed by the underlined concept above. The future is also only a potentiality... and I think this is somehow key. He continues: The divinatory function [of runes] is not "fortune-telling". It is the revelation of who you are now and what forces in nature, society and the inner self have shaped you at this precise moment. What may come will be determined by your decision to act - every moment will present you with a turning point Note, a decision, albeit potentially based the cards [or runes], nevertheless still an active choice. See what I mean? We may even agree? No? - Ah well, I'm off to "sack" some towns! Wouldn't you, Quintus? etc. :laugh: Macavity (the horrible)

full deck	09 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Macavity . . . The divinatory function [of runes] is not "fortune-telling". It is the revelation of who you are now and what forces in nature, society and the inner self have shaped you at this precise moment. What may come will be determined by your decision to act - every moment will present you with a turning point Note, a decision, albeit potentially based the cards [or runes] , nevertheless still an active choice. See what I mean? We may even agree? This reminds me of the notion of the observer-influenced universe model, where to find the position of an electron around a nucleus, one must affect its velocity (energy?). Just the mere effort of observing the electron and determining its position has an affect upon it. In the same sense, attempting to determine the conditions of reality, in the present, of "what forces in nature, society and the inner self have shaped" ones self, does have an effect upon the probably outcome of a given situation. Regardless what one does with the information, it forces a decision, to act or not, upon the individual.

Macavity	09 Aug 2003
Yes, I wish I understood these concepts better. I have doubts whether one can "visit" the future - even outside reality, but a notion of changing things, by "swinging" on the Web of Wyrd(?) extending into the future or of constraining possible futures by choice seems more palatable to me then any predestiny. ;) (For fun!) From the same reference (trans. Magnusson & Palsson) Blood rains from the cloudy web On the broad loom of slaughter The web of man, grey as armour; Is now being woven; The Valkyries Will cross it with a crimson weft The warp is made of human entrails; Human heads are used as weights; The heddle-rods are blood-wet spears; The shafts iron bound, Arrows the shuttles With swords we weave this web of battle. Sure beats the heck out of physics or a deck of cards? }) Macavity

lunalafey	09 Aug 2003
Ok, here’s an example of the cards & telling of future events….. First let me give you some background. In September of ’98, the man I was in love with disappeared. He was a man who would be where he said he’d be when he said he’s be there, very dependable. He was to visit on Friday afternoon, he never showed up. I felt something was very wrong. A lot of things happened in the next few days, one of which was finding his truck in the middle of nowhere, personal belongings all there. That is when I did a reading (two actually) I used a 12 card pyramid spread, asking ‘what happened to Paul?’ The cards told it like it was but at the time I could not understand the future. The future cards fell as such: ……….#12-Rx 10/pentacles…… #10-5/cups………..#11-5/swords There is a ranch, this is the ranch Paul lived on and worked as a hand at the time of his disappearance. There is the ‘killer’ and the ranch owner. They share the business and both live on the ranch as well. In March of 2002 is where the ‘future’ kicks in. The ranch owner dies in a single car accident (de to his habitual drinking & prescription drugs), leaves the ranch and the business to the ‘killer’. A few months down the road he gets into a little bit of trouble with bad business practices (I’m not clear on specifics). In June of this year while down in the city with his wife, he finds himself in jail on domestic assault charges. He had beat up his wife so bad she ended up (supposedly in a coma) in the hospital. He had threatened her and their 2 children. This apparently was a wake up call for the wife, so she talked to the police and told them EVERYTHING she knew about Paul’s disappearance, even where his remains could be found. Now the ‘killer’ sits in jail up here awaiting justice.

Elle	09 Aug 2003
OMG, I was always a believer, but now I am an Uber-believer. Deepest sympathies and many prayers sent your way, Elle

suzyspellbound	11 Aug 2003
Oh lunalafey how tragic, you must have strength to get through something like that! Hope now that justice will be served! Thank you for an interesting and very personal anecdote. Peace be with you

firemaiden	11 Aug 2003
(((Lunalafey))) how horrendous. :( Forgive how dense I am... could you spell out how the cards you drew reflected the future? how did you read them then? and how do you see the present circumstances reflected in the cards?

lunalafey	12 Aug 2003
the three cards are all inter-connected with the events that happened. Q "what happened to Paul?" the 10 of Shields expresses the commnity living of the people involved & that the ranch owner adopted the 'killer' as a son. Together they ran a business off the 'home-land-ranch'. And the inhieritance of the ranch from the owner to the killer. The reverse aspect of the 10sh expresses the death of the owner (thus the inheritance) also, the ill practices- 'risk-taking' of the killer after the passing of the owner. The 5 of cups mostly focuses on the wife and the hell she lives in holding on to a secret for fear of her life, yet wanting to be free of the control & violence. The 5 of swords is again some conflict & loss. I feel this one leans more towards the killer. He was a 'winner' for about 5 years, when he thought he had gotten away with murder, but the 'fight' he had with his wife? he may have physically overpowered her for the moment, but the consiquences of his actions then & now have caught up to him. I see the 5 of swords as a 'no-win sitation' cards. No matter if you do come out on top now, it won't be that way when karma catches up. I had also done a CC at the very beginning of all of this and the question was "what about Paul?" that was when I did not know a thing, only my own ideas. The final outcome of that spread was also the 5 of swords. When I did the pyramid reading, I applied the future to me. I could not see it in my life though. Somehow I forgot that this spread had nothing to do with me. This was also 5 years ago when all I had & knew was the one deck.

The the tarot can predict the future ? thread was originally posted on 07 Aug 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.