Comparitive Study: (6) The Lovers

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Sep 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Little Baron	06 Sep 2003
COMPARITIVE STUDY: (6) THE LOVERS 'What does your 'lover' tell you?' (Please read thread 'Probably a crazy idea ...', if you don't understand what this is all about) DECK: PHANTASMAGORIC THEATER TAROT by GRAHAM CAMERON I have never, until I purchased this deck, had much of a connection with previous Lovers cards. A lot of 'Lovers' cards revolve around the physical side of the card, which I understand is an element of the card, but not the whole picture. Graham Cameron's take on 'The Lovers' shows a couple seated on a chair together. They are dressed a like; they look alike. Both are wearing individual crowns. On the floor are two dice (a recurrant feature in this deck, if you are unfamiliar with it) and a small 'jack-in-a-box' is open with a heart bouncing out from a spring. In the background are two doors; these doors could be the kitchen and the bathroom, but I like to think that they are the single rooms of the two lovers. As someone suggested in the Phantasmagoric Study Group, both doors could open up into the same room. As well as the sexual and emotional love that the couple have for each other, an element of traditional tarot lovers is 'choises'. I think that in this depiction, the choises are symbolised by the dice and the doors. This couple are obviously very fond of each other but they respect each others individuality (crowns) and also that each other has a life outside of their partnership (doors). If both those doors do lead to the same room, then it could show that even though the two are heading towards the same place with each other, that they do things in their own ways and make their own choises. The colours in this card are subtle even though they are bright. There is no overpowering symbolism of lust and no nudity which helps me to look at the other sides and angles of this card. The fact that they look alike , as twins even, gives the card balance and possibly suggests a soul mate. The fact that they look like children could suggest a youthfulness, young couple starting out, new relationship or even a naivity in a situation regarding a decision that needs to be made. The artist of this deck, Graham Cameron says "A couple share a chair locked inside each others space". Does this suggest that maybe others in their lives are locked out? Is this a stifling relationship? So, how do 'your' lovers compare to those of the Phantasmagoric? Are their comparisons in your card or does the image you use differ greatly from this one? What elements do you think are the most important within 'The Lovers'? What details within your deck's card are most important? Look forward to hearing from you all and your chosen decks. Don't forget to label the post with which deck you are using and if it is possible, an attatched image would be a bonus. Best wishes to you all. I hope that this thread is a benefit to new readers and long time tarot readers. Yaboot

Moongold	06 Sep 2003
May I suggest that we put the deck, card and number in the post heading so that it is easily searchable? TotOP is a deck written for Pagans. I didn’t get it for that reason but because someone I admired read with it, and I loved the images. It has the Rider Waite associations but there is enough difference to make it interesting. In this Lovers card, a naked man and woman sit in the grass, obviously in close and intimate conversation. In the background is a large bright Sun, blue sky with clouds and doves flying, then an angel with a hexagram upon its chest, flowers and fruit and various other herbs. The hexagram is reported to represent Karma. The Sun represents will and consciousness, and the Angel represents spiritual guardianship. The couple hold a lily, which indicates innocence and highlights the simple beauty of this scene. The woman has a garland of Forget-me-nots in her hair. As in all the TotOP images, the fruit, herbs and other plants are important. The apples represent love and immortality. Cherries are connected to Love Spells; Grapes are to do with fertility; Lemons purify; Oranges represent love and lust, as do Pears and Strawberries. So there is a lot of symbolism in this image, covering the whole range of human feelings in love relationships, Strongly implied is the idea of choice, however. By love relationships, what are you choosing? What are the gains and the losses? What is the balance of all those qualities symbolized by the fruit in your relationship? Do you want to be a pair or do you want to be One? Is there a symbolic integration of the Self here? We are all a combination of many things, including feminine and masculine characteristics. And it all looks so ethereal and beautiful :)

Moongold	06 Sep 2003
This deck was developed by Rachel Pollack, author of 78 Degrees of Wisdom and Forest of Souls. Shining Tribe was created long after 78DW and features in FOS. It is a naïve, joyful, colourful and original deck with some variations from traditional RWS associations. The Lovers card characters are an androgynous human and angel, representing the merging of the sacred and the human in our relationships. They hang, joyfully joined, above a landscape of trees, mountains and river, suggesting a connection with the Earth and the qualities of Empress., especially fertility. From the Lovers’ kisses, lightening bursts, so there is more than a spark of passion in this union :D. Looking at this in the context of sacredness, the idea of sexuality is sanctified as joyful and legitimate. I love the joy of the Shining Tribe. The deck is highly original, although it uses symbols and mythology from all over the earth. The colours remind me so much of the colours of our Australian outback - God’s own beautiful country, but tough country. Union with another can bring fun, holiness, softness and passion in the beautiful but sometimes harsh landscape of life.

Mimers	06 Sep 2003
When I think of the Lovers card in this deck, I think about huge choices rather than the concept of love or relationship. The Marseilles deck shows a man between 2 women. Above him is the son and cupid ready to shoot the arrow. One woman appears to be older. Perhaps his mother, but I always thought of an older widow when I see her. This woman wears the crown of victory. She is older and less attractive than the other woman. She has a hand on the man's shoulder and the other is pointing to the ground. I think of the woman as the practical one. choosing her as a bride would mean security in terms of weath. This woman would be what is expected of him. Then we have the woman on the right that wears a crown of flowers on her head. This woman is young and beautiful. Her hand rests on the man's heart. The man himself looks towards the older woman with his eyes, yet touches and points to the beautiful woman. So this card to me represents difficult choices and important ones at that. Our happiness usually rides on this decision hence the sun above. This man must choose between his heart's desire and what his mind says is right. Who will he choose????

Dark_angel	07 Sep 2003
The card shows a naked couple tied together with a ribbon (at the level of the reproductive organs. Another figure seems to rise out of them, and a pair of scissors is positioned over the lovers, with the fingerholes over the genitals. The background is a mixture of colours. They seem quite serious, and stand slightly apart from each other, with little contact. Everyone needs their space and their secrets, and relationships aren't just about the good times, they're a responsibility. They're naked in front of each other, both physically and mentally; each knows the other so well that it is difficult to hide from them. Although they are now emotionally involved, they were first brought together by a physical urge, sexual desire; hence the ribbon around them at hip level. It was perhaps the first thing to bind them together, and the severing of that ribbon may be the first step towards the end of the relationship. Just as it keeps them together, it keeps them apart from the rest of the world - the danger of all-consuming love is that it will take everything, leaving nothing when it's gone. While in their cocoon, they have everything they need, but when it disappears (through death, breakup), they will be completely alone; love is destructive as well as creative and can destroy each individual's life outside the relationship. But the figure rising up from the people shows the beauty of love, and why we bother with it, when other animals merely procreate. Two individuals, by giving to each other of their true soul, can create a fulfilled, harmonious whole (1+1=1), and even new life, which they can cherish and help grow.

Mimers	07 Sep 2003
Another of my favorite decks is the Universal Rider Waite. This is the deck I use most often for the symbolism and for the fact it is the deck I learned on. I don't have a scanner, so I will describe the card. The first thing I notice is the briliant sun at the top. Underneith is a fiery angel. The Angel's hair appears to be flames and even it's wings reminds one of fire. The Angel appears to be giving the man and woman below it's blessing. The angel to me gives the card the meaning of divine inspiration and guidance. The man and woman in the card are both naked with their arms open as if they are ready to receive something. The nakedness implies the fact that they are both comfortable with their natural selves. The woman is looking up towards the Angel as if she is looking to receive guidance from above. The man looks towards the woman as if he is waiting for guidance from his feelings towards the woman. This to me implies the meaning of choice that was so obvious in the Marsielles card, but not so obvious in the RW card. Do we follow our feelings, or the guidance from above. Behind the woman is the tree from the Garden of Eden with the forbidden fruit and the serpant of temptation. Behind the man is the burning bush where Moses went to receive the Law from God. This implies to me the meaning of the blending of opposites. On one side we have the law, or masculine, and on the other side we have the sensual, feeling side, or feminine. A balance of both is important in our lives hence we have the Angel giving a blessing over them both. The one symbol in this card that has me puzzled is the pinnacle in the backround. Perhaps this represents some sort of obsticle between our masculine and feminine sides? If anyone else has any ideas concerning this I would be interested in hearing them. In a nutshell, this card to me is a card about choice and about the union of opposites.

Little Baron	07 Sep 2003
Some really interesting Lovers interpretations; all different but all with common links. Dark Angel; you describe and interpret the Adrian beautifully; when you speak about the cards, it really warms that deck up for me. Best wishes Yaboot

Dark_angel	07 Sep 2003
Awww, thanks! I'm really impressed by your interpretation of the Phantasmagoric (sp?) deck. I saw pictures of the cards but didn't feel a connection to them, but the way you describe them makes me want to have another try. xxx

oceanpoetry	07 Sep 2003
here is the "Lovers" card from the Crystal Tarot deck...the lovers are in an embrace, either as a greeting or good-bye, which illustrates the choices represented by this card. The sun's light showers blessing on the lovers from above. This is a beautiful and dreamy card.

oceanpoetry	07 Sep 2003
for Mimers, I scanned in the URW "Lovers" so others can see the card, too.

lunalafey	07 Sep 2003
Talk about opposites attract! One fey sits on earth, one floats upside down in the air. The background elements such as the rocks he sits on and the sky she floats in is divided in the card- expressing balance & harmony. (It may take me some time to find a pic.). I believe that these are the only Fey in the deck that are compleatly free from clothing or other adornments. They are show in thier exposed, pure & true form. They hide nothing, they change nothing. {lol- what you see is what you get!} The sitting Fey is large and bulky, he is very earthy. He presents strength and solidity. He has a few 'thorns' that are part of who he is...built in protection. His counter-part, is airy, delicate, soft. It's as if his thorns would 'pop' her out of existance. Yet she has no fear, she is compleatly comfortable & confident. They reach out to each other, his large hands give such a light touch. They stare at each other adoringly- stare! not gazes, this is a very intense eye to soul contact. One can see the silent exchange of intense emotion, those things that eludes all words. Somehow this card expresses to me that, just because it doesn't seem possible, it can happen. off to find the card to attach.... well that was easy.... http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/fey/index.html

Mimers	07 Sep 2003
Lunalafay, You have expressed so beautifully the essence of the Fey deck's lover card. The Fey deck is not my favorite deck, but this Lover card is my favorite of all the decks I own. I pulled it out with the intention of posting on it, but could not find the words to describe the feelings it evoked in me. Thanks! Mimers

Nevada	07 Sep 2003
A being who appears to be a powerful entity, perhaps a priest, towers over a couple, one light one dark, who in turn tower over two children, one light and one dark. In each pair the most significance difference is in the color used to portray each partner. What I get from this Lovers cards is the fact that when you enter into a committed relationship of any kind, whether marriage, business or social, you are combining the energies of those involved, on all levels including Karmic. It's a kind of spiritual alchemy. Be careful that you know who you're aligning yourself with. It can result in almost anything from ultimate good to ultimate bad. It's definitely not a step to be taken lightly. I've also looked at this card as having to do with synergy, the kind that happens in marriage, when the marriage itself takes on a character. Also teamwork, when all members of the team work as one and produce something no individual member could've imagined. But usually I see it more as partnership than as larger group work.

mercenary30	08 Sep 2003
Adam and Eve stand close under a tree. Adam has a piece of fruit in his hand and looks at Eve in a very sensuous way. Eve is seemingly looking off in the distance. They are covering themselves with leaves, so they have already been cast out of Eden. There is an Angelic figure above them hold a banner saying ‘Nothing Better Here Below’. A stag lies in the background. When I look at this card I see a man totally smitten, physically, with the woman standing next to him. I see the woman, a look of confidence on her face, knowing that she has control. The fruit he carries may well be the piece that got them booted from Eden. The saying on the banner portrays love as the best earth has to offer. That also eludes to the promise of greater gifts in the after life. There is a large amount of symbolism placed in these cards by Karen and Alex, like the stag as a symbol of fidelity and faithfulness. There is also a lot of history and symbolism in the art itself that can only been known by reading Karen’s book. That book really brings these cards to life.

Maan	08 Sep 2003
( i hope someone can scan this card for me...i could not find a picture on the web and i don't have a scanner :( ) In this picture the lovers look very intimate and almost shy. They obviously seeked out this place at the waterfall to be alone.They touch but it does not seem to be sexual. Its like they are lost in eachother eyes. The flowers at their feet have opened them selves totally like this couple is doing. They let the other look them in the eye and through them directly in their soul. This is a very cleansing thing to do. The whole picture seems to suggest some sort of cleansing. The waterfall obviously but also the two frogs in the right bottom corner of the card. Frogs stand for cleansing, to let the "dirt" and past baggage go. Thats what you do in my view when you truely love someone. You let them see yourself totally, the way you are in the depts of your being. if the others sees this and accept all they see its as cleansing as forgiveness can be..... The colouring of the card is overall green. Fresh green like in the spring. A new love is a new beginning. A time of growth on both sites..to finally be able to shine, to blossom. Love Maan

WolfyJames	11 Sep 2003
The Enchanted Tarot by Zerner and Farber - VI The Lovers A young couple are gazing at the stars. Another woman lies below. They seem to belong in some sort of circus. They all wear ballerina's shoes. The couple is well dressed, elegant and frivolous, maybe dancing, while the other woman below is more revealing and sexy, and yet, not as well dressed as the couple and not as pretty as the other woman. The woman in the couple is looking at her lover, obviously happy and vibrant - rays of colorful light come out of her back. Her lover though, is looking at the other woman while embracing his lover. The couple seems to be talking, sharing confidences. A cupid is at the top of the couple, showing their love. The star under the cupid and next to the man shows his sexual attraction to the woman below. The man is being tempted by vice and must make a choice between vice and vertue. He is frivolous and immature and he has difficulties commiting himself to his fiancee; the sexual attraction with the other woman is an excuse to run away. He has to choose true love and commit to it. http://www.wicce.com/zernerfarberpix.html Wow! That was a good exercice and it made me work on this card. I'm eager to work on the others.

Little Baron	11 Sep 2003
This has been a really interesting thread; thanks to all that contributed; really pulled the Lovers together in my mind. Since I am not around for a bit, Dark Angel has said she will continue the threads and draw new comparitive study cards as and when. Look forward to coming back and contributing to her draws. Thanks DAngel. Yaboot

Mimers	03 Oct 2003
Thanks Oceanpoetry! I am going to look at the Lovers from the Drogi Tarot tonight or perhaps tomorrow. I plan on getting a new scanner for my computer this weekend and will scan all the other cards I wrote on as well. Thanks again, Mimi

Jewel-ry	03 Oct 2003
OSHO ZEN VI LOVERS Hi all, Hope its not too late to post to this thread. I am a new member and am fairly new to the cards so please be patient with me! Also, I have to apologise as I cant scan the card. Anyway.... The lovers card in this deck has two people in profile looking at each other. Beneath them is a red heart (with wings) within which the same two people are in a clinch, embracing! Beneath that the ground is covered in red roses. The book that comes with this deck describes love as falling within a whole "spectrum" of relating. From "earth to sky", that is it can be grounded, raw, sexual, but as it develops it can raise to greater heights. This is depicted well in this card I think. The heart (with the more "lustful" picture) is towards the bottom of the card. As the couple grow, the picture depicts more a joining of the minds than body, they have stars in their hair showing I think the "ascent" of love. The two people are looking at each other as if they know what each other is thinking. One person can know another so well that they act as a mirror of the other. I think this card shows very well the different levels of love or union. Cant see any choices in it though. Perhaps someone else can? There is a symbol in the middle of this card and I dont know the meaning of it. If anyone out there can throw a light on it, that would be great. Not sure if I have added anything here.... Hope so

Mimers	03 Oct 2003
Jewel-ry, It's never too late to post to these threads! The more decks described the better. Thanks for posting, Mimers

Mimers	06 Dec 2003
This is a new deck for me and I am really enjoying it. This deck is rich in symbolism and I love that. The lovers card pictures a couple just about to kiss. There are sparkles in their hair like stars and on the blue sleves of the woman are yellow stars. The woman's shirt is pink which would mean she lets her emotions run freely. On the man's shirt there is a crown on his shirt right over his heart. The masculine side has controll over his emotions. Balance of opposites. From their kiss, smoke or maybe the 'essence' of their love rises above to a pentacle with the ying/yang symbol and also travels down toward the earth again this exibits balance of opposites. The woman points to the left. I will guess this could mean the femine side or the past. I am not sure. On a branch are 2 love birds looking to the left with a golden disc right begind them. There is also a golden disk in back of the two lovers. There are also white lillies and red tulips that decorate the foreground. White lillies for purity and red tulips for passion. What a beautiful card. Between the two lovers we can see a river. This could represent emotions running wild. A river is moving always. Just like are emotions do when we find love. It is interesting to see how different this RWS type meaning differs from the meanings one would get from a Marseille type deck. See my previous post with a description of the Camoin Marseille Lovers card. The RWS deck changed a lot of the meanings of the Major Arcana cards and the order of them as well.

wynde	06 Dec 2003
i just gave this deck to a friend but VI really caught my eye. it's called the lover actually, and brings a very interesting slant to the card. http://www.wicce.com/segretipix.html the LWB tells the story of how there are twin sisters alike in outside appearance but very different in attitude and expression, one quite and reserved, one brazen and wild. the young man thinks he is in love with both and is faced with the decision. the story continues to talk about how he is not truly in love with either and seeks only the temporary power that the hold respectively. a very interesting concept indeed.

galadrial	07 Dec 2003
I loved your description, Mimers, and fortunately this card is one of the ones Aeclectic chose to display for this deck: www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cosmic/

firemaiden	07 Dec 2003
Here is a slightly edgier version of the Lovers card (not that it isn't also "lovey-dovey") MUHAHAHAHAHAH

firemaiden	07 Dec 2003
Here is a Bhuddisht take on the Lovers card from The Roots of Asia Tarot (Thaworn Bunyawan, and artist Amnart Klanprachar, publisher AG Müller). Bunyawan writes: [font=palatino][/font]

Mimers	07 Dec 2003
What an absolutely beautiful lovers card! I really need to get a scanner to be able to share pictures as well. Thanks, Firemaiden for sharing these. I love the Roots of Asia card! Mimi

firemaiden	07 Dec 2003
And here is yet another one. This is a deck entirely of original paintings by Ferenc Pinter, very beautiful and very dark.

Mimers	07 Dec 2003
Gorgeous! could you bring that deck back to NY with you? I would love to check it out! What do you mean by dark? The Lovers card did not seem dark to me.

firemaiden	07 Dec 2003
Well, there is an undertone of violence and anguish, the five of coins "madness" a stabbing, the Ace of swords "violence" is a beheading, the 3 of swords "war" shows the rounding up of people (Jews) onto boxcars, the Wheel is the torture of the Rack, the 5 of swords titled "innocence" shows soldiers taking a woman to be raped, with a laughing devil watching. Looking through the deck, I see pictoral references to the two world wars, maybe also the recent Baltic wars. I see violence from medieval times, Spanish inquisition type violence, violence commited by the church... This said, the cards are all quite beautiful. My favorite card, the one I bought the deck for is the moon card -- a woman running out in to the ocean with her skirt flying up revealing her two full moons...

Mimers	07 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden Well, there is an undertone of violence and anguish, the ace of swords shows a beheading, the five of coins "madness" a stabbing, the Ace of swords "violence" is a beheading, the 3 of swords "war" shows the rounding up of people (Jews) onto boxcars, the Wheel is the torture of the Rack, the 5 of swords titled "innocence" shows soldiers taking a woman to be raped, with a laughing devil watching. Looking through the deck, I see pictoral references to the two world wars, maybe also the recent Baltic wars. I see violence from medieval times, Spanish inquisition type violence, violence commited by the church... Ok, I see what you mean. Quote: This said, the cards are all quite beautiful. My favorite card, the one I bought the deck for is the moon card -- a woman running out in to the ocean with her skirt flying up revealing her two full moons... Nothing like revealing your deepest darkest secrets! :laugh:

Mimers	13 Dec 2003
What a beautiful Lovers card. At first glance, this card looks very simple, but there is much to be gleaned from this picture. The most obvious, of course is the two lovers in center of a beautiful heart. The lovers are not only opposite in gender, but one is an Angel and the other is human, depicting to me the combination of the spiritual and our humaness, as well as the blending of our masculine and feminine sides. The Angel cups the breasts of the female in such a gentle and loving way. Embrasing the feminine. Likewise the female very lovingly and gently embrases the Angel. This emphasises the need to embrase and love all aspects of ourselves. The heart in the backround is beautiful. It reminds me of the inside of a shell. The colors are purples and fushas and blues and white blended beautifully. The edges of the heart are frayed, and give the appearance the the heart is still expanding and filling out. In the center of the heart it appears that a downward pointing sword is there. It's handle looks much like a butterly. When we embrase all aspects of ourselves, it cuts to the heart of the matter and transforms us. This card came up for me once when doing a reading for my Mother using this deck and these are the things that stood out to me. She was having troubles dealing with some issues in the community and this was her advise card. I told her that by looking at the issues at hand from all the different perspectives and to respect and embrase the desires of all those involved, even those she did not agree with(the lovers), she would be able to get to the heart of the matter or the real issues(the sword) and transform(the butterfly) the opinions of others to see what the true answers would be(the heart). Mimi Here is a link where all the cards from this deck can be viewed. http://www.tarotpassages.com/pgtar1.htm

The Comparitive Study: (6) The Lovers thread was originally posted on 06 Sep 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.