Learning by Numbers

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Sep 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Dave_D	24 Sep 2003
Hi all, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. In learning the meanings of the 78 Rider Waite cards and particularly the minor arcana, I would find it very helpful to understand any numerical cycles or patterns that have influenced the card images we see today. Unfortunately, the books I have read and the endless pamphlets that accompany new decks discuss card meanings individually, often with attention paid to the details of the images, as if to suggest that the artists responsible created without guidance; that their artistry is responsible for the meaning of the Tarot and not the converse. Eileen Connolly's first book was very helpful to me and the first to confirm for me a pattern in the minor arcana, whereby the aces represent a beginning and tens represent an end and/or rebirth. Unfortunately, her book did little to fill in the rest, leaving the reader to memorize a barrage of seemingly unrelated keywords, or "seeds," to explain the meanings of card numbers two through nine. Sure, "cooperation" is an intuitive seed for the twos, but how does "soul development" describe the sevens? A better knowledge of the underlying birth-to-death cycle might make all of this exceedingly intuitive. ...I'm guessing. If I am correct in suggesting that numerical cycles or progressions have influenced the meanings (and then the artwork) of Tarot cards, then it seems most efficient to learn those lessons first -- a foundation before studying the cards and their artistic nuances individually. That I have not found these lessons in print leaves me disenchanted (and has brought me here). Can somebody please fill me in on the birth-to-death cycle of the minor arcana? Do other cycles or progressions exist to assist in understanding the Tarot deck more quickly and easily? Thank you very much! Dave

Lightbringer	24 Sep 2003
Hi! I've found your considerations very pertinent as I, myself, am studying the tarot in such perspective. I agree that the study of the numbers in the cards can give light into the meaning of the cards, specially the minor arcana. I wonder if you have read the articles on this site concerning the meaning of the minor cards. If not, there are a series of articles called Thirteen's Tarot Basics which are very useful and approach the card meanings in such a way, besides giving other useful information. I'm a beginner and I found these articles very valuable. See you!

nexyjo	24 Sep 2003
forget systems. throw away the little white books. eliminate any preconceived notions about what each card is supposed to mean. when i first started studying the tarot, i handed my son - who was maybe 8 or 9 at the time - a deck of cards, and asked him to look at each card and tell me what each card "said" to him, how each card made him feel, and what the picture suggested. i was amazed at how closely each of his "interpretations" of each card echo'ed the suggested meanings in the lwb. i was also amazed at some of the "twists" he came up with while looking at some of the cards. it was an illuminating experience. from that point, i started to no longer look at the title of the card, and concentrated on the image. i tried to see each card as if i was looking at it for the first time. basically, i tried to forget all i knew about the tarot. if i could start my study of the tarot all over again, i'd never look at a lwb, or even *any* book on the tarot, especially those that relate to specific decks. those only "poison" your mind, and create limitations and constraints to what is supposed to be a connection to the universe.

Inana	24 Sep 2003
Hi Dave! Im not sure if I understood fine what you are saying, but anyway... The cycles in the Minor Arcana from 1 to 10 are following the numerological meaning of each number applied to each suit. Also each minor is connected with the major arcana of the same number: Aces with the Magician, twos with the High Priestess and so on... Hell im explaining really bad, hope is understandable. Take a look at Thirteens Basics like Lightbringer has suggested, it would be very usefull to you. You can find it here: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/basics/index.html About the numbers itself... I dont know much about numerology but here are some meanings I use. They make some kind of progression, easy to follow if you think about the geometrical figures you can obtain with that number: 0- Divine, Totallity, absolute (Circle) 1- Oneness, power, indivualism, begining (Point) 2- Duality, cooperation, oposition, choice, polarity (Line) 3- Expansion, creation, growth, expression (Triangle) 4- Stability, structure, solid, strong, rational (Square) 5- Knowledge, adaptation, going beyond (Pentagon, Pentagram) 6- Union, beauty, harmony, integration (Six pointed star) 7- Transformation, concentration, effort, doubt. 8- Movement, change, communication. 9- Expansion, addition of energies, internal completeness. 10- Ending, completion. Dont know if all this can be of use to you. Anyway, like i said before i wasnt sure about what you were exactly looking for.

Dave_D	24 Sep 2003
Inana, your response hits the mark dead on and on multiple levels. First, the introduction of shapes works very well for me to describe the individual stages of the 1-to-10 cycle, particularly for 1 through 4. Returning to numbers, while I understand that five is a transition point (halfway between birth and death), things begin to fall apart for me here. If six represents a beginning of recovery from five's turmoil, then why do we fall back into even greater conflict at seven? I would have thought five to be the PRIMARY transition and conflict point while six through nine represent a steady progression of healing and higher achievement. If we place the numbers around a circle, like a clock, one and ten are at the top while five and six are at the bottom. The bottom of the circle is the only obvious transition point. If there is a struggle to be found, it would appear to begin at five or six. For example (and I apologize for being wordy), if one through four are taken to represent childhood and five adolescence, then six through ten would be adulthood and the respective goals and achievements of adulthood. I don't understand the "slip" at seven. We don't go through two adolescent phases. And this is only one example taken very literally. I suspect that the same applies to other regular life cycles. Most things follow a birth-awakening-completion cycle or a start-struggle-finish cycle; not a start-struggle-recover-struggle-finish cycle. I hope that someone can better explain this to me -- what the Tarot forefathers (numerologists?) had in mind. Lastly, I never realized the relationship between minor and major arcana by number! So much has been written about the relationships between minor and major arcana, but never was the numerical connection made clear to me! At the very least, this will help me with memory retention. Epiphany! Thank you!

Umbrae	24 Sep 2003
Each card actually is a transition. Here’s a fun exercise for you. Lay out all of the twos. Now think on why they are different, and more importantly why they are all alike. Do the same with the threes and fours and all the way through. You will find that the RWS decks kinda don’t follow a correct numerical progression. A three of swords ain’t really about swords stinkin’ in yer heart. That alone implies no fault, no responsibility for pain or anguish. Look at the fives. The don’t always dictate conflict, only if a person gets out of balance. Tens…why does a person have ten swords stuck in their back? How about they are in denial about change… You are on the correct track for learning tarot. And remember…meanings are dynamic, not static. A six of wands does not always mean the same thing… Have fun!

Inana	25 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Dave_D Returning to numbers, while I understand that five is a transition point (halfway between birth and death), things begin to fall apart for me here. If six represents a beginning of recovery from five's turmoil, then why do we fall back into even greater conflict at seven? I would have thought five to be the PRIMARY transition and conflict point while six through nine represent a steady progression of healing and higher achievement. (...) For example (and I apologize for being wordy), if one through four are taken to represent childhood and five adolescence, then six through ten would be adulthood and the respective goals and achievements of adulthood. I don't understand the "slip" at seven. We don't go through two adolescent phases. And this is only one example taken very literally. I suspect that the same applies to other regular life cycles. Most things follow a birth-awakening-completion cycle or a start-struggle-finish cycle; not a start-struggle-recover-struggle-finish cycle. I also find hard to understand why after the six we get in trouble again. I see it seems no logical start- expand- struggle- recover- struggle again. I dont really know why its so. My first thought here is maybe from one to five we go through a personal or inner level, and from six to ten is like if we "repeat" the cycle but on a more external level, in relation with the rest of the world. I mean, maybe the problems from the five are related with our innerself and the ones in the seven related with how we adapt and connect with the environment. Taking your example of the life of a person, the five can be the teenager. On six, the personality is already formed and one has some kind of stability. On seven, a young adult needs to reequilibrate its life to adaptate at the condition of being an adult, is a new maturation process. Makes it sense? Im talking when one is in the twenties and/or first thirties and realizes that the things arent like he/she thought. Like discovering the world and your position on it again. Im in this kind of second "adolescence" right now. But really i dont know. This are only random thoughts. Like Umbrae said, maybe the Rider Waite doesnt follow a correct numeral progression and its more based on the correspondence with the Major Arcana. The exercise he proposes is a very good one. Take things easy and welcome to Aeclectic!

Thirteen	25 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Dave_D if one through four are taken to represent childhood and five adolescence, then six through ten would be adulthood and the respective goals and achievements of adulthood. I don't understand the "slip" at seven. We don't go through two adolescent phases. Um, yes, we DO. You're taking it too literally. Adolescene is hell, right? But then you finally seem to come together in college, yes? The skin clears up, the teeth are straight, you get to be away from your parents and on your own, you're learning, growing, getting confident. All is well at #6, you feel you understand it all. And then you get a job. That's #7 all over! That first job and there you are at the bottom of the ladder. And you feel adolescense all over again. You feel stupid (because you don't know the job), you feel isolated (because everyone at the job already has friends and clics to hang out in), you feel adrift, you don't know the ropes, the politics, the way things work. You're clumbsy, you make mistakes, you get yelled at. #7 tells you to HANG IN THERE! Move forward, keep focused, weather the storm, fight the good fight. You've planted your seeds, formed your opinions, have your dreams. You're working toward them now, don't swerve, victory is up ahead. Move on to #8 and now things are flying along. You've got the hang of it, maybe learning new tricks, things are coming together--you know exactly where you need to go, what you need to say and do, and you have the strength to manage even the difficult times. That's where you're in your prime of adulthood. Not awkward young adulthood, but real, solid adulthood. Hit #9--oh, dear. Midlife crisis. You've heard of that, haven't you. That's where you stop dead and wonder how the hell you got here, at age 40+...and what do you have to show for it? You feel dissatisfied; should you soldier on, or give up? You have anxieties and nightmares about all the things you wanted to do that you never did--did you waste your life? Should you go out quick and use all that money you've earned to buy all the nice things you never took the time to buy? Or are you one of the lucky ones who can gather happily with friends for a holiday dinner and say, "I've everything I ever wanted"? 10 completes the cycle and starts it over again. Does that help you see the reason for #7's dip back down again?

Dave_D	25 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen Does that help you see the reason for #7's dip back down again? Yes. But in my quest for organization to the cards, I cannot help but notice a pattern here: There is conflict in your odd-numbered cards and recovery/achievement in the even-numbered cards. Is this intentional or merely coincidental? I like this idea very much as it, like the more simplified birth-struggle-death (1-5-10) scenario, is a regular pattern that can be applied universally to most things. In fact, it describes a simple truth: Life is a series of ups and downs; There is always the potential for failure and always room for improvement throughout a larger cycle. ie. Following your previous example, just because we've survived adolescence, we are not given a free ride through adulthood. Is this an accurate observation or am I trying too hard to find organization in the cards? I simply don't feel comfortable studying the artistic images for personal input yet -- not until I understand the underlying principles that have influenced those images. [ie. "is it merely artist's preference or is there a reason the king's eyes are blue?"] Thank you very much for your guidance! Dave

Umbrae	25 Sep 2003
Let’s play with numbers a bit. In a regular deck of cards, there are twelve court cards. If we count the number of pips on the forty numbered cards we come up with two hundred and twenty. If we count each of the twelve court cards as ten that equals one hundred and twenty. There are thirteen cards in each suit. So we add two hundred and twenty plus 12, plus one hundred and twenty, plus 13 and we get, three hundred and sixty five, how many days are there in a year? There are thirteen lunar months in a year, thirteen weeks in each quarter, and twelve calendar months as a whole. There are twelve court cards in a deck that some say represent the twelve apostles, add J.C. and you have thirteen; the twelve tribes of Israel and Jacob; Robin Hood and his twelve merry men; twelve signs of the zodiac; twelve members of a hung jury; twelve gods on Mount Olympus; twelve slices in a perfect orange… Thirteen is huge in both astrology and religion. Some say the three court cards represent the Trinity; Christianity, Egyptian, and Celtic religions all share this number. 40 numbered cards: Noah endured rain for 40 days and 40 nights. Moses and 40 days on Mt. Sinai. Elijah and 40 days of solitude. JC fasted for 40 days in the desert. Jerusalem was destroyed 40 years after the ascension. 40 weeks to have a baby…And sleep 40 winks. Here is the way I look at the numbers in the cards. This isn’t a gospel; it’s not complete. One is the center point. It signifies Individuality, focus, uniqueness, direction, and control. Deity, undividable and infinite. The here and now. The source of all things. Ones represent new beginnings, ambitions, fresh opportunities, and planting new seeds that may have long-range developments. Ones signify the right time to begin a new venture or they can reflect a deeply held desire. They show that it is a time of leadership, independent thought, leading, initiating action and progress. A two is the line between two points. Opposites united, duality and pairing; partnership issues, commitment, cooperation, receptivity and the need to make a choice or decision. Integrating ideas and people. Twos are the number of emotions. The superior female principle symbolized by the crescent moon of Egyptian and Phoenician deities. The two columns at the Phoenician temples and adopted into Qabalistic and Masonic lore. Twos often herald a time of waiting and being passive and a need to cultivate patience. Twos often relate to the characteristics of sensitivity, gentleness, and shyness. Three is the triangle, The perfect number. Threes represent expansion, choice, creative insights, growth, expression, fulfillment, and deeper understandings, the spirit, the soul. The manifestation of one under three forms, The triad is present in almost every religion. The three elements that make up man (spirit, soul, body). Wisdom, Strength and Beauty; Faith, Hope, and Charity. Three’s signal a time where self-expression and self-promotion are likely. There is a possibility of recognition and expression through the written or spoken word, so they also represent communication. Three represents groups and shared interests, so it also reflects increased social activity. Let us not forget to list stability, form, focus, structure, an orderly approach – or plans; and lastly joy. There are three kinds of people. Those who make things happen. Those who watch things happen. And those who wonder, “What happened?” The witch Baba Yaga asks each petitioner the same three questions; “What are you running from? What is it you seek? What are you willing to risk?” Best ask yourself those questions…daily. For the Norse - Teutonic peoples it is an extremely Holy number, there are three Norns, and the three roots of Yggdrasill. Shopenhauer said, “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” Harlan Howard once said, “What’s country music? Three chords and the truth.” Three’s are growth. Or are threes about three swords stickin’ in yer heart? In some cultures, the number three is held sacred. The three muses, the Holy Trinity; faith, hope, and charity; three’s a charm, disaster comes in threes, Three’s Company, three’s a crowd, The Three Stooges, and The Supremes. Four…some cultures hold four to be sacred. The four elements, the four points of the compass, soup, salad, entrée, and dessert. Four is the number of the square – material man - reality. The four directions. Fours Symbolize stability, order and structure, planning in action, evaluating, solidity, calculating, pragmatism and order. Fours suggest a time to lay foundations for future success. They may also reflect a period of restriction and burdens where you feel you are faced with important decisions. Fours relate to self-discipline, and maintaining the status quo, or social order. Most folks get carried away and say that Fours represent the home. They do, but they are also so much more. Five is the number of the Pentagram. Fives embody free will, justice, uncertainty due to change, a desire for freedom and independence that makes you go against the status quo of the four. Fives can signal a time of nervous energy, challenges, adventure and impulsive actions; education, humanitarianism, balance, unity, social structure. Fives also suggest travel and expansion as well as instability brought about by resisting change. That’s really the key. Look at this five of hearts, I’ll balance it on my finger, and give it a spin. It remains balanced upon the center heart, if it gets a tad off balance, and the card can no longer spin on my finger, that’s where conflict and strife comes in. If you remember that, you will remember the essence of fives. Six is the Hexagram, creation, the six directions of space, harmony, balance, and the perfection of parts. Sixes symbolize a transition from the past to the future, and as such they relate to responsibilities to others, and duty to home and family, or friends. It is a number that is associated with peace and harmony. It indicates a need to settle any past debts, and make amends where such are due. It is the number of community. Seven…how long do you have? We could spend days on the number seven. In ancient Hebrew doctrine it is written that, “God blessed and loved the number seven more than all things under His throne.” It is the number of the triangle and the square brought together. A pure and perfect number. The symbol of life as the four elements of the body uniting with the three elements of the soul. The scriptures tell us it took seven days to create the earth (easy there, we are in the world of the ‘all powerful mythos’ here); there are seven days in a week, the seven-year physiological cycle. Remember the sacredness of threes and four? Add them together. Also the balance and harmony of six, plus the one of unity. Sevens stand for a need for introspection, independent self-discovery, and inner growth. Sevens reflect taking an original approach to learning, meditation, retreat, and reevaluation. Sevens often signal a time of slow growth and may suggest an attitude of defiance. It is a number of awareness and spiritual awakenings. The eight, nine, and ten, by themselves should not be ‘bad cards’. It’s what surrounds them that will provide the meaning. The spaces between the cards often have more import than the cards themselves. Eight represents two squares. The dual squares represent justice, judgment, and also metamorphosis. The dual stability of love and friendship; and the abilities of power, leadership, money, and career issues. Eights relate to the focus and control necessary to direct your energy toward achieving your goals. They show movement and changing direction. This number signifies advancement in the external world, property issues, and material gain. Nines are three triangles. These are symbolic of attainment on three planes (physical, spiritual, and mental), the sum of all that’s gone before. They are the number of the Muses and therefore knowledge of the sciences that they represented. Nines represent completion, self-fulfillment, and preparation to let go and move to a new level of experience. Underline that last sentence in your journal. When we begin discussing individual cards, you will want to revisit it. Nines suggest a time of attainment and clearing the decks to make way for new opportunities. They also symbolize compassion, selflessness, concord, and charity. Ten may represent the Tetractys. Pythagoreans swear "By him that gave our family the Tetractys, which contains the Fount and Root of everflowing Nature" (Sextus Empiricus, Adv. Math. VII.94-5). Tetractys or Tetrad is often stated, by followers of sacred geometry, to be the apex of Pythagorean mysticism. It is shown as a group of points from one to four, arranged as a pyramid and is said to represent “the elements of number, which are the elements of all things.” It is the number of the world, the source of counting (the ten fingers). Ten is the number of perfection, completion, and fate Mathematics is about structure and order. Action requires structure to keep from it from becoming chaos. Mathematics is the foundation of geometry, without which we could not build – and create what is needed for the cultural structure. Understand the numbers first, and then add in the influence of the suits.

galadrial	26 Sep 2003
Quote from Umbrae: "Let's play with numbers a bit." Here are a couple of sites that may help reinforce and illustrate some of Umbrae's points. www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/Intro.html www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit4/unit4.html www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit8/unit8.html

Dave_D	26 Sep 2003
Umbrae, you're THE BOMB! Thank you! I printed and studied your post last night for a couple of hours, comparing, one by one, your explanation of the numbers against my other resources; namely, Eilleen Connolly's book, which, if you recall in my original post, had presented a number of keywords, or "seeds" to describe the significance of each number, but otherwise without a supporting explanation. The results were profound. Your explanations included many of the same keywords to describe each number, but with so many additional keywords and phrases to better flush things out. More importantly, your explanations include the missing background info -- how the meanings were derived from each number -- the numerology. At last, I can BELIEVE the meanings associated with each number, rather than accepting them on blind faith. This, in turn, will assist with memory retention. I am concluding that the 1-to-10 cycle is less significant than the indiviual numbers that comprise it. For example, it would be an oversimplification to conclude that the three of cups is '30% realization of love & happiness,' right? This was the direction I was taking with my 1-to-10, birth-to-death cycle. Instead, the significance of that card comes namely from the unique properties of its number -- birth, stability, group -- which cannot otherwise be derived from three's position between one and ten. It follows that my odd/even assumption is also incorrect. Please redirect me if my conclusions are wrong. As stated before, I did test this logic for each card in the minor arcana, matching the meaning of each number to the respective suit and then comparing my interpretation against others. The results were gratifying with only a few exceptions (most of them swords) that, for clarity, I will reserve for a separate discussion (or two...). Lastly, -- and I hate to bother you with any further questions -- I understand your recommendation to first study the numbers and then the suits. But when (and how much) do you factor in the artistic image on each card? Or do you instead make a point of using only cards that depict accurately your interpretations derived from the aforementioned numerology? Again, thank you SO very much! Dave

Diana	26 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Dave_D As stated before, I did test this logic for each card in the minor arcana, matching the meaning of each number to the respective suit and then comparing my interpretation against others. The results were gratifying with only a few exceptions (most of them swords) that, for clarity, I will reserve for a separate discussion (or two...). Dave: The Swords make sense like the rest of the cards.... but not if you use a Rider Waite deck or a clone. (Or for that matter, a Thoth deck.....) Which leads to the conclusion that.... (see you in your thread! :) ).

Dave_D	26 Sep 2003
Quote: Which leads to the conclusion that.... Oh, what a TEASE! Yes, I have several Waite decks and -- you guessed it -- a Thoth deck. Looks like I'll have to compose that follow-up thread sooner than later. Dave

Dave_D	26 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae You will find that the RWS decks kinda don’t follow a correct numerical progression. A three of swords ain’t really about swords stinkin’ in yer heart. That alone implies no fault, no responsibility for pain or anguish. ps. I just went back and re-read your original post. Looks like you forwarned me about the lack of chronological order in the Rider-Waite decks, but I didn't quite 'get it' at the time. I apologize if I seem dense. Dave

Umbrae	27 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Dave_D ...but I didn't quite 'get it' at the time. I apologize if I seem dense. No...you're right where you should be...Thoth ain't a sweetheart either - whoa there - that's called an opinion, not gospel. Seriously, when you’re starting out on the correct path as you are (another opinion), a Marseilles deck (one with un-illustrated pips (or minors) is a wise purchase. Just put the Thoth in a cupboard…it will be there in a year when you are ready for it…

The Learning by Numbers thread was originally posted on 24 Sep 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.