When good cards go to bad places

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Sep 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

catti	12 Sep 2003
or vice versa : as in the Devil falls in the virtue position or the 10 of swords in your strength Recently i have had quite a few readings where this has happened : today virtues: the star (rx) strength: 3 of wands vices: the empress weakness: the 10 of swords combined i read it as the querent let go of unreasonable hopes and was facing the future stronger, more realistic , and with support BUT instead of accepting that the relationship was changing , moving he clinged to his ex wife as mother and lover of course there were other cards and this is an isolated example but i am wondering how the rest of you interpret "negative" cards as "strengths" or "virtues" and "positive" cards as "vices" or "weaknessess" maybe i should change my spread ;)

Moongold	12 Sep 2003
Hi Catti, There seem to be two issues here: a) How we interpret negative cards as strengths? b) What people do with our interpretations? The cards are symbols, They can mean what we see in them. I often now see the Tower as a good card. It can mean the person now has a chance to clean house (metaphorically) and take control of her life. The Devil can mean the shadow side of a person coming out to be seen, which is better than staying in the shadows. It can also mean the person accepting herself as fully human. And a hundred other meanings too... Good stuff. 4 swords might simply mean that someone has a good sleep:) We can't help what people do with our interpretations once they have all the information. Hope I have understood you.

catti	13 Sep 2003
the main issue Im interested in is a) How we interpret negative cards as strengths?or positive cards as weaknessess... what people do with our interpretations is clearly out of our control. Like reversals, it struck me that each of us have probably developed different methods of trying to explain " why the devil is really a good thing" to somebody who has never heard of the concept of Shadow work etc... Another way i have used is the idea of to much of a good thing can be bad ( this is for the example of when a "good" card like the Empress is in the position of weakness).... i was just curious what other readers do.

catti	13 Sep 2003
i dont think i have been clear enough....i put good and bad in quotations. know and knowthe myriad of interpretations, about how position effects everything and about the fact there is good in bad and bad in good etc.... BUT when you are reading for people often a "good/bad" card falls in an difficult to explain postition. I dont know what happens with you when you read live, but often people point to cards and say " what does this mean" then i go with position , relation to other cards, meaning etc... but lots of times when a card like the Devil or in a RWS 10 of swords pops up it is difficult for someone to understand the positive side....especially if it is their strength...and i want to give people a reading they understand , i dont like the whole mystical muddle word play game ...so i was just wondering how some of you handle these things did i explain it this time? :) thanks for the responses

HudsonGray	13 Sep 2003
I'd focus on just what was said above--that the Devil isn't the standard 'devil', it's what's inside us that motivates us and can sometimes blind us. The Devil in a positive spot can mean you've got the inner strength & tenacity to pull through the hard times, when it's really needed. Getting the Devil means the meaning for this position shows you're relying ONLY on what's in you, not what others are doing to or for you. Same with the 10 of Swords--it's a relief for people to hear 'well, it looks like THAT'S all over with now, it can't get any worse!' instead of 'oh my god! You're dead in the water! You're gonna die!' like they THINK you're going to say, based on what they see & think on the picture. It's up to you to explain it to them in terms they can understand. The picture of the devil shouldn't get in the way, it's just a representation & a reminder of the internal. What could be bad bullheadedness in another reading comes through as assertiveness in 'this' reading, it's good. Ditto the tower, 9 of Swords, Hanged Man, any that they might immediately think of as bad cards. It shouldn't be a problem, it's just a communication thingie.

mingbop	14 Sep 2003
have you tried not using a set spread ?? i just say to the cards "im asking for (name)...whats happening in hes/her life now"?...cut 3 cards, see what they tell you...then ask tell me about his/her money..his/her love life..".etc and so on. its a bit more free & easy this way & doesn't fix you in cement like a spread does.....its an option !!!

ZST	20 Sep 2003
How much I relate to this... I keep getting, for more than a month, the 10 of swords on the /"what to do"/ "direction to take"/ and such/ position, no matter what spread I use, no matter what I do... Maybe it's telling me what I need to overcome?...

Moongold	20 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by catti Like reversals, it struck me that each of us have probably developed different methods of trying to explain " why the devil is really a good thing" to somebody who has never heard of the concept of Shadow work etc... Another way i have used is the idea of to much of a good thing can be bad ( this is for the example of when a "good" card like the Empress is in the position of weakness).... Catti, For me it very much depends on the context of the reading. The Empress in this postion once indicated that the Querent may not have been business like enough in a particular situation. The Star indicated that the person had worthwhile goals in themselves but they were "way out there" for her. Hope this helps.

nexyjo	27 Sep 2003
balance is the key. too much of a good thing is a bad thing. i can be truthful to a fault. or i can understand my weakness for gambling, and use that as an excuse to go into casinos anyway. if the devil appeared in a position of strength, i might take that to mean that i can avoid the casinos, that i have the understanding that i'm addicted, and the strength to apply that understanding to my life. if the empress appeared in a position of weakness, i might take that to mean i'm creative to the point where my creativity overpowers my need to be practical at times. or i got pregnant *again*, even though i have no way to support the child.

caledonia	01 Oct 2003
A sorta technical question: say you're reading a spread, and that spread has a position assigned to "obstacles". The card you lay down in this spot is a good card. It is upright, it is a card that signifies happiness or fulfillment. How is the proper way to interpret this "happy" card that has shown up in a spot that is meant to tell about an obstacle? Does one simply read it as reversed, regardless, or is it to mean that there simply is no true obstacle for the querant's subject? Thanks in advance. I am SO enjoying ths forum. Regards, Caledonia

Umbrae	01 Oct 2003
So...like...what's the card...? Just as an example...

caledonia	01 Oct 2003
It was the ten of cups, set in the "obstacle" position of a horseshoe spread. There does not seem to be an obstacle to get out of this card. Caledonia

firemaiden	01 Oct 2003
Well, lets see -- you might think the 10 of cups refers to having a happy family. But perhaps having a happy family might be an obstacle to your career as a racing car driver.... or who knows... as a concert cellist... Or if it represents fulfillment in every way, hmmm, that might act as an obstacle to your ability to find depth through pain. (just trying to be creative here...)

Bosorka	02 Oct 2003
Browsing through web I found topic about founding both sides of cards. This is not from my mind, but as example there was actually 10 of cups. I donīt know what deck did you use, but for RWS there stand: "take a look at the card. A happy family is supossed to be a single group of 4. not dwo groups of two. Also, the colors of rainbow arenīt in the rainbow order. Than, can you tell if the parentsīs hands up are celebrating, or they try to reach something out of their grasp?" I think itīs quite interesting, just somehow doesnīt work for me in case of 9 and 10 of pentacles... ;)

The When good cards go to bad places thread was originally posted on 12 Sep 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.