Determining your soul card...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Oct 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Snowman	19 Oct 2003
I find it really helpful to determine a persons soul card before doing the spread for them. First, add up the year day and month of their birth, for example: Jim was born August 2, 1946, so I would take 1946 plus 2 plus 8 equals 1956. Then I would add up the individual digits of that number: four example, one plus nine plus five plus six equals 21. If this number is greater than 22, I would add up the individual digits and come up with a reduced number. I would then find the major arcana card for 21, which is "the world". Note: for this exercise, the fool is number 22 instead of zero. Snowman

Moongold	19 Oct 2003
Hi Snowman and welcome to Aeclectic :) I gree with you - knowing a person's Soul card can be very useful. There is more material on this in this particular forum at http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13125. If you check the compendium you'll find many more references as well. I look forward to seeing more posts from you.

wynde	30 Oct 2003
interesting... i also figure people's soul card during readings but i always continue the addition sequence until it leads me to a single number (1-9) which i see as the "archetype cards" then the number of steps it takes to get to the single digit relates to how fullly the archetype is present in the person's life and attitude. example: my birthday adds up to IX in one step while my friend's adds up to VI in 3 steps i will take your method into account though it certainly provides more options doesn't it?

Moongold	31 Oct 2003
I am very interested to know how you do it, Wynde. Apparently there are a number of different ways. The one I am familiar with comes from Tarot Constellations by Mary Greer and was ininitially devised by Angeles Arriens, a well known US tatot teacher. I'd love to know hw you do it. I too find it very helpful to know the Qurent's Soul card when doing readings.

wynde	31 Oct 2003
here's an example my friend was born 12.27.1979 adding those numbers together equals 2018 adding the single digits of that equals 11 since i further reduce it to one digit & 1+1=2 the birth card would be 2 instead of 11 yes i think there are many different ways. all valid and helpful i'm sure. i looked in a "birthday book" of some kind the other day and it said my birth card was strength (i calculate it as the hermit) so who knows how they did it.

Moongold	31 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by wynde my friend was born 12.27.1979 adding those numbers together equals 2018 adding the single digits of that equals 11 since i further reduce it to one digit & 1+1=2 the birth card would be 2 instead of 11 That is exactly how Mary Greer does her calculations. The only difference is that she calls the higher number (11) the Personality Card number and the reduced number (2) the Soul card number. You cccall the Soul card the Birth card. How do you define the Birth card? Greer calls the Personality Card a msjor signpost along life's journey. For her the Soul card reveals the goal or purpose of our being. There is away you can calculate your year card and individual name cards as well.

Lethe	31 Oct 2003
This is fascinating something I'd not heard of, how do you use your soul card? Does it define your personality? Do you always read the cards skewed towards the definition of your soul card?

Moongold	31 Oct 2003
Greetings Lethe, Mary Greer writes about this concept extensively in Tarot Constellations (now out of print) and Tarot for Yourself recently published in a new edition and readily available in book stores or via the internet (Amazon.com). It's worked out numerologically using birthdates as described in the previous threads. I'll post a link here which will show how to do it and also give you more information. Oops....you can find the particular link in my first post to this thread. I have found this concept to be useful information in helping me understand my life. It's one more tool in a kit bag of tools and strategies. If you would like to PM your birth day/month/year I could work out your lifetime cards for you, but you may prefer to follow the link and do it for yourself. There is some debate about the western numerological system. Mary Greer comments that, by reason of our birth, we are tied to our own perception of time and we are not really free to rid ourselves of it. She says we are fated to relate to time as we do through our cultural heritage and the calender and clocks to which this adheres. Many spiritual teachers hold that before birth our soul chooses the kind of life we need to experience in order to complete our physical plane education. This is a whole other subject which I won't go into here. I don't really know much about this yet to be honest. Best wishes, and please post again or PM me if you would like further information. In the link specified you will also find information from MeeWah, who has been working with these concepts for many years. Many other Aeclectic members have commented in these threads as well.

punchinella	01 Nov 2003
Hi everyone. This subject has been distressing me for awhile--I have Mary Greer's book (Tarot for Yourself), I've done the calculations . . . & I'm an 8. Personality & soul are both 8 . . . So . . . *twitches smasmodically & rolls her hair up around her index finger for comfort* would that be, Strength??? Or Justice??? AAAAAAAUGH ! ! ! ! ! I want it to be Strength, oh, I do so want it to be Strength . . . but I'll never, so long as I live, be able to rest comfortably like the rest of you in the knowledge that it is what it is . . . There will always be that horrible, creeping, gnawing knowledge that it might just as easily be something else . . . & a something else, moreover, that I don't particularly like or trust . . . Yours, in the anguish of--oh, of the moment (until I move on to yet another curious delightful & stimulating new thread)--P.

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
Hey Punchinella.... You have the right to choose :) Why not take both......? Or if you prefer decks which have Strength in the VIII position, why not simply opt for Strength. And the the same with Justice What feels right? With the number VIII, XVII Star is the hidden factor card, This applies whether you use Strength or Justice in the VIII position. The feminine Major Arcana figures: High Priestess, Empress, Strength, Justice, Star....have I got them all.....a good group....all connected in some way.

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
By the way Punch............... Justice is the most unnecessarily feared card. I think guiltily recall all our "sins" and horrible secrets when we think of Justice. Look at the card carefully - see the scales - She is about balance that's all. Think of the Self - the Shadow is an integral part of the fully human you. You could not exist without it in this life. You just need to integrate it - have it balanced. Why do people fear Justice so much. Don't confuse her with Temperance now!. Are you a Libran by the way?

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold If you would like to PM your birth day/month/year I could work out your lifetime cards for you, but you may prefer to follow the link and do it for yourself. I would like to get back to you in more detail on this, at present I'm just taking a quick bit of respite in this oasis of calm. So quickly... My birth date is 07 October 1975 = 21 (snowmans version) or 3 (Wyndes version), earlier you mentioned that you could choose I feel a bit to new to it all to make that decision, how would you advise me there?

firemaiden	01 Nov 2003
uh oh... having a relapse of skepticism here... why would any of this make sense if there so many different systems... I mean if your soul card is one thing in one system, and another thing in another system, which is your real soul card... or.. does it matter? And if it doesn't matter, then... why use it at all?

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
Greetings Lethe, In Mary's system, you belong to the Tarot Constellation 21/12/3. You'll notice that 21 and 12 are expanded versions of the roor number 3?. Essentially this means that 21 (World) is your Personality Card, 12 (Hanged Man) is your Shadow Card and 3 (Empress) is your Soul Card. Have a look at the link given a couple of posts back for more information. If you need information additional to that, please ask. Now Punchinella's Choice? her Personality/Soul card is 8. There is along standing debate in Tarot about whether Strength or Justice has the 8th position in the Major Arcana. I suggested that she look at this matter as a choice, not a burden. You don't have this choice in this instance :).

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden uh oh... having a relapse of skepticism here... why would any of this make sense if there so many different systems... I mean if your soul card is one thing in one system, and another thing in another system, which is your real soul card... or.. does it matter? And if it doesn't matter, then... why use it at all? Wynde is simply using a variation of the Greer system. Other systems are based on other numerologies. The Soul Card idea is just one tool among many. Some people find it useful; some don't. There is no compulsion to use it :)

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
Firemaiden I must admit I was a bit baffled in one sense your soul card seems all defining and has predeterministic aspects, but on the other hand you have an element of choice over how you find your soul card. I just think I need to spend more time with this, I haven't had chance to read much of the other link yet. Moongold, thank you for your help, I have one more question breifly (although I'm sure when I get round to reading the other thread it will be answered), how did you derive 12 for the shadow card, is it just a reversal of the former?

gloria	01 Nov 2003
Personal Year Number. Add Day, Month, Current year. For example: born May 31 1951 You would add 31 + 5 + 2003 = 14 Corresponds to Temperance. This card would show the area you need to reflect on for this year. Gloria.

gloria	01 Nov 2003
Quote: There is away you can calculate your year card and individual name cards as well. My last post was in response to Moongold's quote. Any use? G.

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
Sure Lethe, The system is based on root numbers e.g 3/12/21 See that 12 and 21 when reduced make 3) My constellation is 7/16 (the next would be 25 but the Major Arcana does not go over 22) So my Personality and Soul card is 7, and my shadow card is 16 Tower ! So you take all the prime numbers up to 9 and expand then from the root number like this: 1/10/19 : 2/11/20 ; 4/13/22 et cetera ! Hope this is a little clearer. More questions welcome.

firemaiden	01 Nov 2003
Very well put, Lethe!! I couldn't have said it better. In my mind, those two aspects cancell eachother out. What I like about tarot is the intervention of fate, or magic, or just plain chaos, through shuffling. But our soul card is pre-determined by numbers... no shuffling. I mean it is fun to see what the soul card might be, in this way, and that way, and the other way, but can't we find aspects of ourselves in all of the cards??

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
The beauty of tarot is that it does offer many such choices. Take your time, Lethe, and play your way through them :)

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
So my Soul card is 3 (the Empress), which means my goal or purpose of being is beauty, success, union of masculine & feminine. My personality card is 21 (the world or universe in my Golden Dawn deck), which means... what exactly; that the signpost along my life's journey is investigation of my inner psychic make-up? Is this how I strive towards my soul card or rather my personality chooses this path to achieve it's goal? My shadow card is 12 (the hanged man), but I don't understand what a shadow card is. I feel a bit silly, I'm probably asking too many questions before having read enough on the subject, perhaps I'll read up for a couple of days and I'll have a better picture!

Inana	01 Nov 2003
Punchinella, Im an 8 too and usually prefer to relate this number with Justice, feels more authentic or traditional, wathever. Consider we are lucky since we can chose. And if is not comfortable for you, why dont you treat both cards as your soul card: Strenght and Justice? They have some conection between. To make wise choices and judgments, being fair, requires big inner strenght. One needs courage to walk the path of Justice, but one also needs some kind of balance to be able to follow his desires withouth harming no one (including oneself). Well... just some thoughts on a sleepy sunday. Soul cards arent that important.

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
Reading about the hangman I'm intrigued, I'm am often told off for being too nice, I wil carry all the heavy shopping without saying anything, leave the best food for others etc. Is this spiritually positive or something I need to work to correct?

Inana	01 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lethe My shadow card is 12 (the hanged man), but I don't understand what a shadow card is. A shadow card is supossed to be the occult in you. The part of yourself you find difficult deal with, to accept or to control. your fears, weak points you need to strenghten. Being the hanged man, maybe you find difficult to end wathever you start and to make sacrifices for achieving what you want (it has some kind of opposition with the Empress). You probabily find difficult to accept another points of view. But sure others can tell you something better. I have had always a hard time with the Hanged.

Inana	01 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lethe Reading about the hangman I'm intrigued, I'm am often told off for being too nice, I wil carry all the heavy shopping without saying anything, leave the best food for others etc. Is this spiritually positive or something I need to work to correct? This is something only you can tell. Everything is bad in a big dose. Another aspect of the Hanged Man is feeling one is like a martyr. Or the time when one needs to stop and think about what is he doing. Why dont you meditate on the card? Think on times in your life when this card can apply. For me it uses to mean im in denial and suspension.

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Inana A shadow card is supossed to be the occult in you. The part of yourself you find difficult deal with, to accept or to control. your fears, weak points you need to strenghten. Being the hanged man, maybe you find difficult to end wathever you start and to make sacrifices for achieving what you want (it has some kind of opposition with the Empress). You probabily find difficult to accept another points of view. But sure others can tell you something better. I have had always a hard time with the Hanged. Inana thank you very much for that insight, my biggest bugbear is my discipline, I have always found finishing things difficult. As a writer it is a continual bane. I am a very good conversationalist and whilst I have strong viewpoints which I argue well (I think) I'm not averse to compromising if I feel the other has held their point of view well. Having said that it is something I have trained myself to do. I have a philosophy that almost makes me believe in nothing 100% percent knowing that the universe is ever moving. You are correct though someone needs to argue their point well to convince me. I'm amazed at how directly you hit the nail with such little information, I am now even more awed by the perceptive nature of Tarot.

Inana	01 Nov 2003
Lethe, im happy if it helps in any way. Tarot is a very interesting thing. Im learning lots in this forum.

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
Yes I really am at the very beginning of my learning curve, but already I have found so many useful ways to understand myself better.

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
Lethe and Inana and others...... These questions are great to discuss. The Shadow, in Jungian psychology, is the darker aspects of our character that have remained under developed because they have not been given expression. I am quoting almost directly here from Christine Jette's Tarot Shadow Work. Jung suggested that the Shadow is really powerful and if we don't address it eentually it will show itself in our lives. There is absolutely nothing to be feared by the concept of our Shadow. It is an essential part of being fully human. Having said that, owning parts of our Shadow can be difficult, but that is another story. Mary Greer calls the Shadow card just this up to the age of 30, after which the first Saturn return has usually occurred and we have dealt with many significant life issues. (Lethe - there is a lot of material on the internet about the first Saturn return, and also something in Aeclectic's own astrology forum). After 30, Mary Greer calls this card the Teacher card, and it represents something that we still have to learn. Spiritual development is a life long process. Lethe, are you new to Tarot? The messages of the cards will evolve for you as you pass along this path. What deck do you use? You might like to ask yourself some gentle questions about your shadow card - Hanged Man. What is the significance of the image to you personally? What do the symbols in the card mean to you? Can you use any symbol in your own life? Are you attracted or repelled by the card and why? Can you learn anything from the card? And so on..... This is the deepness and fun of meditating on Tarot cards. With the Hanged Man........What is hanging you up, or leaving you suspended? What can you see fron a different perspective? What do you need to surrender to? Where must you be humble? Where can you be patient? My Shadow card is Tower and I went from Oh! No!.... to seeing the Tower as, amongst other things, a card which represents change and healing.

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
This system is generally known as the Lifetime cards system and it is based on birth dates as we discussed earlier. The system is also connected with numerology which is the study of numbers and the impact they have on our lives. There is a whole new field of learning here folks, and you may find yourselves inexorably drawn towards it as your knowledge of Tarot deepens. The Tarot Constellations are based on root numbers, 1 through to 9, and I expanded a little on that in an earlier post. You are aware that each Major has a number, and the meaning of that number can enhance your understanding of the cards. If you are anything like me, this will be a complete mystery to you at this stage of your Tarot experience. Smile at your confusion and let it float by. Understanding comes inevitably, and the learning is delightful and exciting – I found it to be so anyway. As firemaiden says quite beautifully, we can see ourselves reflected in any of the cards at any time. And you can simply ask the Tarot to show you a card which reflects your life purpose at any time. I sometimes do this in personal readings, and sometimes it happens when I let the Tarot nominate a Significator in spreads like the Celtic Cross. I’ve chosen to accept the Lifetime Cards concept as a useful one for me. Chariot and Tower (Soul and Shadow) – they significantly appear in my personal Tarot work now. It is just one way of understanding and using Tarot, however.

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
Moongold I have limited experience with Tarot from an amateur acedemic view-point, but not from a personal perspective, so my knowledge of them is limited. I feel perhaps because of this I am coming at it from the wrong direction and should just get to grips with the basics before I start concentrating on soul/shadow and personality cards. This just intrigued me so I wanted to know more, one thing that has slowed me down has been reading in my Golden Dawn deck that one needs to consecrate the deck before use. I haven't done this yet due to a post I have placed in the general section. Is this mere superstition or do you believe that the deck should be consecrated. Can I also take this opportunity to once again thank you all here, you are excedingly patient and helpful I can't believe the level of support I have already received at this site.

Moongold	01 Nov 2003
Lethe ......... I agree that it is really important to learn the basics first. Play, explore, meditate. The Life time cards thing can come later. As for deck consecration....I think that is a purely personal decision. Various people have different rituals, and you will find mention of them here somewhere. If you use the search function in the top right hand corner of the page you can find something. Alternatively, have a look at the compendium at the beginning of the Tarot Cards forum. Moongold

Lethe	01 Nov 2003
Moongold thank you for all your help.

Star Spirit	01 Nov 2003
Odd. I'm very strange. My birthdate adds up to 9, and therefore my soul card is 9. My personality card is also 9, since it did not have to be reduced. Numerologically, my full name is 9. Therefore my birthday and name added together give me my life number, 9 (which I have known for some time). And my personal card for this year is....you guessed it, 9. Seems like there's more to it than just the Hermit :>

punchinella	02 Nov 2003
Dead star, that's too cool. My guess is that this is a very significant year for you! There's a thread somewhere on this forum asking people which card they most identify with--& it looks to me as though a good 80% of responses are "Hermit" . . . you must be a natural tarot reader, or something! Thanks Moongold & Inana for your reassurance re:the number 8. No, I'm not a Libra, but I'm real close (tail-end of Virgo) so maybe I should give more consideration to Justice . . . funny, I'm far more comfortable with--the Death card!--than I am with Justice . . . A while back on some thread or other (or maybe it was even in a book) I heard someone saying that when Justice comes up in a reading, it almost always has to do with a person getting what s/he deserves, with what s/he currently has/does not have being no more & no less than what s/he truly deserves (scary stuff . . . ) Anyway, yes, you all are right, having a choice IS something special, something to be grateful for . . . Thanks everyone for pointing this out! P.

Star Spirit	02 Nov 2003
Hey punchinella, I hope you're right! I'd love to become good at this... I'm a Virgo too, by the way (the 9th sign, haha, which is connected straight to the Hermit). Only I'm right on the cusp like you, just barely a Virgo by a few hours. Except I'm at the beginning and you're at the end haha. But I have to admit, it is very strange how every number of mine is a 9. I'd like to know the significance behind it, if any.

Moongold	02 Nov 2003
Dead Star...you're at an end and a beginning :) Do you have some artistic skill or vision that you now want to share with the Earth and the Universe? Are you going to give something back. It seems like you're getting a special call this year ......maybe a kind of personal close encounters of the third kind call but to your immediate world perhaps??? Nine is a number of completed cycles....love, compassion.... delight....from lessons learned....that you want to give out... a year of high energy for you.

Star Spirit	02 Nov 2003
Well I guess if I end up moving in with my boyfriend in the States, that would be a completed love cycle? But that's probably in the Spring. We've been in a ****ty long distance relationship for years. I plan to be a writer so that I can give back to the world, but that probably won't happen for a few years. So I'm not sure why this year would be so significant.

wynde	06 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lethe This is fascinating something I'd not heard of, how do you use your soul card? Does it define your personality? Do you always read the cards skewed towards the definition of your soul card? somewhere on the internet i read a very enlightening idea about the birth card's significance in one's life. i'm afraid i can't find the page now to post a link, but the author explained that one's soul (or birth) card (I-IX) could be compared to a kind of "core curriculum" for one's life. or put another way, the lesson or ideal that one must master in this lifetime before moving into the next. i thought that was interesting, especially because many people have the characteristics of their archetype card, but they don't use the strenghts or love the attributes of the card that they find in themselves. as for the "skew" in readings, it definitely adds another dimension, especially in readings for myself. knowing the birth cards of my closest friends makes it very poignant when they pop into readings (and always in the right places, of course.) Also, when my card comes into readings for others i perk up a bit and bring a little more of a personal note into it. it doesn't always signify me specifically, but it does mean that some personal info or a personal experience might meet a need.

TemperanceAngel	18 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold Mary Greer writes about this concept extensively in Tarot Constellations (now out of print) and Tarot for Yourself recently published in a new edition and readily available in book stores or via the internet (Amazon.com). Hi Moongold, I bought Tarot Constallations new this year in Melbourne. Maybe it's back in print? :confused: XTAX

Moongold	18 Nov 2003
Hi Temperance Yes, I got it new last year as well at the TS Bookshop. I think I read here that it is out of print now. What date is your edition? Some of the work in this book is included in Greer's new stuff. It's a great book isn't it? I love the concepts and the spreads right throughout. I think it might even have been published in the late 80's or early 90's I have Tarot Mirrors, a kind of companion volume as well. Moongold Moongold

TemperanceAngel	18 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold Yes, I got it new last year as well at the TS Bookshop. I think I read here that it is out of print now. What date is your edition? It's a great book isn't it? I love the concepts and the spreads right throughout. I think it might even have been published in the late 80's or early 90's I got mine at the TS Bookshop as well, Moongold. It was first published in 1987 and it says this is a first edition :confused: which it can't be as I bought it 2003. The concepts are brilliant and I have always enjoyed sharing them with non-Tarot friends, who get a lot out of it and it's fun too!!! I love Mary Greer, she is my fave (by far) Tarot author and Tarot For Yourself was the very first Tarot book I owned, my bible. :D I haven't been able to find Tarot Mirrors, maybe I should look on Amazon? I would really love to own a copy. You know she is speaking at the conference jmd is organising in Melbourne, 2005? I can't wait!! XTAX

TemperanceAngel	19 Nov 2003
YEEHAH.....:D:D......I just ordered Tarot Mirrors from Amazon, roll on December.....:D:D:D XTAX

Moongold	19 Nov 2003
Hi Temperance, I think that we might have been lucky enough to get the last two copies of Tarot Constellations around. An old stocker must have had some pristine copies of the 1st edtion salted away somewhere, Hold on to as I'm pretty sure it is our of print now. :)

TemperanceAngel	19 Nov 2003
How lucky are we;) I WILL treasure my copy! XTAX

Jewel-ry	23 Nov 2003
Hi Everyone, Having now established (with a little help from Moongold :)) that my soul card is Magician :TMAGE, personality card Sun :TSUN and teacher card Wheel of Fortune :TWHEE can anyone throw any light on what in fact the Wheel of Fortune can mean in this position? Jewel-ry

Moongold	23 Nov 2003
Your learn through risk taking. You learn to be a good entrepreneur - easily able to manage change and be flexible, easy going. The Wheel builds on the creative potential of the Magician. You may need to learn to roll with the punches :D

The Determining your soul card... thread was originally posted on 19 Oct 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.