paddling upstream with Ace/Cups

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Oct 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

gloria	19 Oct 2003
I feel that I am seeing this card for the first time. The water that spills out from the cup in the ace puzzles me in some respect. Amongst other things it could imply “fountain of youth”…..young love….. love in the first stages (ace) But are they fountains? Maybe they symbolize rivers or streams. Three on one side, two on the other, surely this would unbalance the cup? So why 5? What does this number represent in this particular card? Can anyone throw some light here? Gloria,

HudsonGray	19 Oct 2003
Is this the Rider Waite deck or another deck?

gloria	20 Oct 2003
Yes I forgot to say, it is the RW Ace/Cups. G.

jmd	20 Oct 2003
The five streams have at times been linked to five streams of Christianity - and there is no doubt that in this depiction the Sacrament of the Christian Eucharist is indicated. The five streams have been said, by some, to consist of the Celtic, the Eastern Orthodox, the Roman Catholic, the Coptic, and the Byzantine rites/churches. Though not clear, these may have been part of the intent - I really should look at his own writing, or re-visit Dummett and Decker's book, in which I seem to remember a direct mention of this card from this deck. Visually, another aspect which is symmetrically significant is that not only are the five divided into two pairs (plus one), but that these pairs 'oppose' each other both laterally (left and right) and also front-&-back (one pair is to the fore, whilst the other recedes behind the hand). The fountain is therefore not only the fountain of rejuvenation, but of life deeply renewed through Christian baptism (only the baptised were permitted, in days gone by, to partake of the body and blood of Christ). The Christian element, on the card of this deck, cannot, in my view, be overlooked.

gloria	20 Oct 2003
Thanks for that JMD. Very interesting, you've given me much food for thought there. G.

gloria	20 Oct 2003
JMD, just a thought. The streams (religions) pictured in their 'opposing' positions, back and front etc., ... could this show or suggest the division or opposition of the various doctrines or religions? G.

Thirteen	20 Oct 2003
Five makes sense not only in a Christian aspect, but also pagan--and Golden Dawn. It's always four elements (earth, air, water, fire) plus one (spirit). Which create the five pointed star (or pentagram). Wang, by the way, says that the 26 drops of water falling with the streams of water represent yod-heh-vah-heh (Hebrew letters representing the name of God--and apparently adding up numberologically to 26)--and that the Dove isn't a Christian symbol (though it sure looks like one doesn't it?)--but emblematic of Venus/the Earth Mother. The cross in the circle is the alchemical symbol for Earth. Note also that the water moves from active (fountaining streams) to passive (a still and quiet pond). And there-in the five different fountains become one.

jmd	20 Oct 2003
Thirteen rightly points out that five also indicates a pentagramme - which, it should also be remembered, also indicates the five wounds of Christ when depicted within a Church. The pentagramme itself, as opposed to some of the other polygrammes, may also indicate not the four elements and the fifth, but, contra Golden Dawn, only one element: the element of Fire or the occult (hidden) force of Life. Still, given Waite's orientation, I agree that the five would be seen, in addition to the five wounds of Christ, as the four + one element. Waite's overt Christian Mysticism, and his Order's Christian Mystical Orientation (in which Pamela Colman Smith was initiated), needs to be acknowledged when looking at this card. Of course, one may totally dismiss the intended Christian orientation of many of the cards if these do not fit with one's views. Nonetheless, they are there. The Dove, though clearly also related to Venusian symbolism in GD work, is also unequivocally related to the Holy Spirit, as third person of the trinitarian Holy Trinity, in this depiction. I also remember reading some years ago that the 26 Yod-drops related to the value of the letters of the Tetragrammaton. 26 undoubtedly does. Problem is, unless an earlier version of this card had 26, there are only 25! Another clear Christian concept embodied in the depiction is the 'A' (Alpha) near the base of the Cup, and the 'W' (a lower case Omega') upon its side. These, especially with the lower case Omega, are often used to indicate Christian teachings. The equal-armed cross upon the pastis certainly represents the element of Earth, and, hence, also the body of Christ. It can also represent, by the way, the four elements and their merging/emerging fifth quintessential aether at their centre. Again, the Christian symbolism inherent in this version of the card may be dismissed. It remains, however, undoubtedly as part of its intended depiction... along with its (Christian) Alchemical and (Christian) Hermetic ones. With Gloria, I agree that the opposition of the streams may be seen as the streams in doctrinal opposition. I suppose that here is where we also see that no matter if the streams are in opposition, they fall and merge into the same vast body of water.

augursWell	21 Oct 2003
I've also seen references to the idea of the five senses. Cups are a suit of emotion and empathy and our senses play a large part in that. Sight, sound, smell, taste and touch can very often effect us in an emotional way and the ace speaks of pure or overwhelming sense. We are also connected to others through our feelings and emotions, water is a good symbol of that interconnectedness. Thus the senses flow back into a vast ocean.

gloria	21 Oct 2003
Many thanks for all the great info. You have shown there are indeed alternative aspects to be explored with this particular Ace. G.

Thirteen	21 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jmd Again, the Christian symbolism inherent in this version of the card may be dismissed. Oh, I wouldn't dismiss it. I agree with Wang most of the time, but this time I really think that dove is the holy spririt (emblem of peace and messages as well) rather than just an emblem of the "earth mother." In addition, the cross-in-circle it carries in its beak always seemed to me to be a communion waffer. Thus you have the blood and body (sic) here with the chalice and waffer. Certainly the Arthurian aspect of the cups suit also reinforces this Christian symbolism. The grail of Arthurian mythic being all about the water of eternal life, purity and transendence.

witchywomyn	21 Oct 2003
The image on my card is much different than the RW deck. This Ace doesn't show the hand holding the cup - this card depicts a a a moonlite night - with a goddess looking over and blessing two people - the goddess has a cup over her head with a ring around the cup - getting the feeling that she is wise and has learned to listen to her own feelings - one person is touching the water that is overflowing from a large goblet - the second person is sitting and watching perhaps listening to what the other is getting in touch with... As a divinatory meaning - this cards says to me - search within yourself - allow these new feelings that are at hand - listen to your feelings - let your feelings guide you -

The paddling upstream with Ace/Cups thread was originally posted on 19 Oct 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.