Definitely not another Reversal thread

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Diana	27 Nov 2003
As I was "paging" through my beautiful Grimaud Marseilles deck, I suddenly had a very strong thought that crossed my mind. It almost made me jump - like it was physical. The thought was, in substance, this: There is no such thing as purely an upright or a reversed meaning when you interpret the cards. The light is in the darkness and the darkness is in the light. As long as we remain human beings, we cannot fight against our duality. Remember the Yin/Yang sign. So when you look at the Tarot cards, remember the day and the night, remember the heat and the cold, remember the above and the below. There, that is my thought for the day which I share with you all. I would very much appreciate comments. Even if it's just to say, "Welcome to the real world, Diana. You mean you only just twigged on to that?"

Major Tom	27 Nov 2003
Took me a while to figure this one out too Diana. :) I've found it an increasingly frequent occurance that I will tell a client both sides of a card - light and shadow. I think, for me it grew out of my belief that the purpose of divination with tarot cards is to get the information I need to produce the outcomes I want. So I try to provide my clients with all the information they need and that just naturally leads to both the light and shadow. So from this perspective it doesn't matter which way a card turns up in a reading - you read both sides of it anyway. How many times have I read the words, "as above, so below"? :laugh:

catti	27 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana There is no such thing as purely an upright or a reversed meaning when you interpret the cards. The light is in the darkness and the darkness is in the light. As long as we remain human beings, we cannot fight against our duality. Remember the Yin/Yang sign. So when you look at the Tarot cards, remember the day and the night, remember the heat and the cold, remember the above and the below. I agree with these sentiments, Diana. In life there are few choices that are clearly right or wrong, most of the time we have to carefully look at our options, measure out situation and how our actions or inactions will affect us, and try to do the best we can with what we have. So why would Tarot be so simple as good vs bad when it reflects our lives so aptly? That said ; I do use reversals and find them very useful, but in context with the question and the other cards. It could be a reversed card is the negative meaning, or that the card represents a lack of something, or simply a "heads up pay attention to this issue" card....among other ways of interpreting reversed cards. The key , i believe is trusting ones intuition to guide you throough which of these possible interpretations to use. As for not using reversals, I just cant wrap my mind around the idea of putting my cards all upright and consciously shuffling so to avoid reversals . That is just too ordered, it doesnt reflect my world at all :joke:

Astraea	27 Nov 2003
Diana, I think you are absolutely correct. I do use reversals, but only if they come up naturally (I don't turn the stacks or shuffle in such a way as to contrive them), in which case I interpret the reversal as a more or less marked tendency; but the entire world of each card is present in that card, just as all of our potential is born within us. I think that you have wise inner guidance.

Jewel-ry	27 Nov 2003
I first began to realise this when I did Larks first reading for newbies on the reading exchange. All three cards were reversed and Dead Stars interpretation was very accurate without reading reversals. It really got me thinking. Basically there is a whole spectrum of answers ranging from the one extreme to the other, the light to the shadow... so clever. J.

Star Spirit	27 Nov 2003
Quote: There is no such thing as purely an upright or a reversed meaning when you interpret the cards. The light is in the darkness and the darkness is in the light. As long as we remain human beings, we cannot fight against our duality. Remember the Yin/Yang sign. So when you look at the Tarot cards, remember the day and the night, remember the heat and the cold, remember the above and the below. That's very profound, Diana! You described the way I also feel about reversals. I try not to worry about them :)

ros	27 Nov 2003
I agree, this statement takes the pressure off having to know the reversals. I do a little of both. Very nice!

skytwig	28 Nov 2003
Wasn't it you, Diana, who said that there is enough 'negativity' in the upright cards to not have to incorporate reversals?????? :D The interesting aspect of reversals, too, is the reversal of a typically negative card.... those tend to fascinate me.... I have a little book that I picked up in a 2nd hand shop.... Mastering the Tarot by Eden Gray, and in it, he has upright and reversal meanings for each card, a card per page..... I've been reading it alot lately because I find, in my own practice, that his interpretations tend to be right on the mark! Thank goodness for Shadow..... it is our Safety, in many ways, it is the Wonder of Light, if we but LOOK, truly look!! There are many doors in Shadow, many avenues to Spirit...... I think of the Fox coming out as the sun sets and I see Magick..... We humans tend to look at Shadow as negative..... I was taught that and i work daily to eradicate such prejudicial thinking from my Earth trained brain!! Wonder, looking at everything with Innocent eyes, is the key! :)

Diana	28 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by skytwig The interesting aspect of reversals, too, is the reversal of a typically negative card Ah skytwig - there's the rub. I make a definitive statement here: there is no such thing as a negative card - typical or untypical. And I will eat my Grimaud deck if you can show me one.......

skytwig	28 Nov 2003
I think as we grow in Awareness, and the Tool of Tarot is one that helps us achieve that Awareness, we come to realize that there is no negative experience, only the Journey.......... Every aspect offers revelation, every aspect of the cards offers a door through which we can find freedom..... every aspect of our life offers Light!! I think of typically negative things in my life, like my brother's death or my children's tough childhood, or my own struggles with survival and I find incredible GOLD! what do I mean by that? Well, my brother was a treasure, and I got to share this journey with him for a while..... he helped me find a place of my heart that no one else could ever touch! My children, much as i hated that process, are Wiser and Softer and Tougher and more amazing for the struggles they met as children..... And I am a better person for all that I have Journeyed..... So can i call them Negative? Not really....... A boulder is hard, we can be crushed by it or climb it..... I wouldn't call it negative just because it can hurt me. I prefer to respect it and learn from it...... We tend to hold an 'ideal' of what the perfect life is, you know.... beaches, sunshine, lollygagging....... but in truth, we would find that quite boring after a while.... in fact, we might call it a negative experience after a while........ :laugh:

Diana	28 Nov 2003
skytwig: I agree with all the above. But I would still like to be shown a typically negative card. I'm not talking about experiences, or clouds with silver linings. Perhaps I am focusing too hard on your words "typically negative card", not seeing the forest for the trees. But that's 'cos I've been traumatised :D :laugh: by so many threads on Aeclectic that have talked about "negative" cards and that makes me want to have a tantrum and kick and shout and say "no, no, no! Negative cards don't exist and positive cards don't exist either. They are just cards!!! Stop judging them like that. One should NEVER judge a book by its cover."

Umbrae	28 Nov 2003
It’s always been my ‘way’, that just because a card is upside down does not mean it’s reversed – knowing when and how to read it comes from ‘listening’ – sometimes to the light, and sometimes to the dark… Negative cards? Positive cards? Ain't no such thing in any of my decks… So I learned from Ooolatek the Seditious One Who Tells Only Lies…

lawguy51	28 Nov 2003
You know, when it smells like a Reversals thread, tastes like a Reversals thread...it's usually yet another Reversals thread! Diana, what you said at the beginning of this thread works for me. Every card has that 'yes, but' quality to it and it's up to us readers to see what shade of light or dark a particular card casts on the entire reading. As for negative cards...no way..I mean, how could you call the Thoth 8 of Cups negative...Indolence...when I see that card I imagine myself slumped into a couch with a bowl of popcorn on my tummy watching football all day on Sunday. Now what's so negative about that?! Lawguy51

Nevada	28 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana There is no such thing as purely an upright or a reversed meaning when you interpret the cards. The light is in the darkness and the darkness is in the light. As long as we remain human beings, we cannot fight against our duality. Remember the Yin/Yang sign. So when you look at the Tarot cards, remember the day and the night, remember the heat and the cold, remember the above and the below. Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae It’s always been my ‘way’, that just because a card is upside down does not mean it’s reversed – knowing when and how to read it comes from ‘listening’ – sometimes to the light, and sometimes to the dark… Negative cards? Positive cards? Ain't no such thing in any of my decks… Quote: Originally posted by lawguy51 Every card has that 'yes, but' quality to it and it's up to us readers to see what shade of light or dark a particular card casts on the entire reading. This thread leaves me in awe once again of the things I learn here, and the validations for those lessons that seem to come at just the right time. It's also a terrific play on the problem with good/evil labels in general, and all those sweeping statements about positive/negative cards. You are absolutely right, Diana, Umbrae and Lawguy. Now--just since Lawguy's reversal thread--when I do readings, I lay out the cards, remember which ones fell "reverse", but then right them all and try to give a balanced and intuitive reading based on the entire card meanings (upright and reversed, in whatever "shade" of each my intuition paints it). The reversal is just one more input, not the blanket answer for that position. Nevada

skytwig	28 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana But I would still like to be shown a typically negative card. ...... Negative cards don't exist and positive cards don't exist either. They are just cards!!! Stop judging them like that. One should NEVER judge a book by its cover." OK, I'm stuck..... now that i think of it, I guess I do react to different cards differently..... I am working to be more open minded about all of the cards and all experiences, but to be honest, some stuff I don't like. Some cards I don't like seeing and have to work to appreciate. Tower I do appreciate, very much, but I don't like it. Some sword cards irritate the heck our of me.... even though they teach me alot! The Emperor and the Hierophant get my goat at times because I'm not wild about some of the aspects of myself that I have to deal with when they appear..... So, for me, these would be my negative cards..... and i think "typically negative cards" TEND to be the 5s and some of the swords...... I do believe that all of the cards are incredible, but some of them get a grunt instead of a cheer when i see them...... :(

Diana	28 Nov 2003
skytwig: I know exactly what you mean. I was being insistent here, not so much to challenge you but to try and get my point across. I think that very often we have our pre-conceived ideas about the cards, due to our fears, or our hopes, or also the deck we use. Pre-conceived idea: Someone who has been brought up in a Protestant or Catholic environment will fear the Devil card. But someone who hasn't, won't flinch when they see it because the Devil to them means that they will overcome adversity, for instance. Deck we use: If someone is using a Rider Waite deck and gets that horrible Tower (absolutely awful card that one - should be a law against it), of course they're going to get all upset. But if someone uses a Marseilles deck, they will also see the Illumination and the soft grass that is welcoming the people being freed (a little abruptly, I admit) out of their self-made prison. (Which doesn't mean to say that this card is always "positive". It can mean a sudden hospitalisation, for instance.... which may lead to them waking up to whatever brought them to hospital, for instance too much stress or whatever.) Ramble, ramble, ramble....

skytwig	28 Nov 2003
I know, I detest prejudice of any sort, especially when it is lurking in my own mind!! Oddly, part of the reason the Hiero irks me is due to my history with religion and real life hieros, yuck!!!! ...... And the Tower..... sheesh, that wondrous card always brings tumult with it for me....... aghhhhhhh!........ Yes, it means more beautiful gardens in my soul AT SOME POINT, but when it first appears, d***, I know I'm in for a mess for a while......... I don't know that it's possible to be 'negative free', you know? If anything, it may be that we lessen the AMOUNT of cards we react to or we react to different cards...... But to be totally REACTION FREE may be a fantasy......... Actually, it may be 'negative' to think we can't think things are negative......... hmmmmmmmmm ..... that's food for thought :).

Minos	29 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Even if it's just to say, "Welcome to the real world, Diana. You mean you only just twigged on to that?" Keepin' quiet here! (Not all of us can be Geminis). ;)

HOLMES	29 Nov 2003
that sounds like a channel to me , diana :O) (way to go if it was ) when i read live for peopel i mention it is reversed, then i pick up the card and show it to them upright and share what it would mean if it was upright , but it isn't due to a blockage , or denial in your outer world or your inner world . of course it varies person to person. i wonder though,, just as there is yin and yang,, sometiems a card is all the way yang, and all the way yin, that is part of the wheel of fortune.

The Definitely not another Reversal thread thread was originally posted on 27 Nov 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.