mixed messages

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

lunalafey	09 Nov 2003
Over many many months I have done a few readings on a particular subject (I don't over ask). Each question & spread having it's own individual approach The messages in each reading are all the same....of course. {I keep hoping somewhere I might have jumped track and headed in a different direction} I'm basically told......go live my dream.........it won't be easy, will take alot of effort- delays.....and then the outcome......zip-zilch-nada. so what I'm seeing is "follow your dream.....struggle.....and end up with nothing" How am I suposed to take that? I wondered if my dream might be the wrong one. So I asked about that......cards said the same thing. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, just as the cards say....a bunch of stagnation! and I know it, but I have things that need to be put into place before I move forward- the delays I adressed these delays in a reading as well- asking 'once I have everything will the ball start to roll?'....the answer- no..... What am I missing here? Is there some sneaky way to get around this riddle?

firemaiden	09 Nov 2003
yes... get someone else to read for you :D

lunalafey	09 Nov 2003
did- twice same results :D

firemaiden	09 Nov 2003
err... okay, so ask the question differently, so it doesn't give you the option to fail... like - so that I don't end up with nothing, what must I do? What are the obstacles, how do I overcome them? What am I not seeing? etc. What sort of spread are you using, what sort of questions? This sounds a bit like the career question I asked Umbrae back in March... there were two paths, both sort of leading nowhere... I had to take a bunch of serious steps to get the nowhere outcome to change.

lunalafey	09 Nov 2003
career question indeed- I took several different avenues of questioning- I even tried to 'trick' the 'force' when I had Holmes do my reading. I asked what 2004 would bring- the reading focused on the issue I had been asking myself (and the cards) about. I figure maybe it's just not time yet and that no matter how much I push right now, I'm still going to get nowhere. Outside forces restrict me. Some of the spreads include obsticals- the cards tell me what I already know, gotta get my ducks in a row, and I'm working on that- but that's the hard place I'm up against. I just need to be paitent- some more....I'm getting tiered of waiting! lol overcoming & what I'm not seeing- I will have to review the readings, I think there have been a few positions that address this....

firemaiden	09 Nov 2003
LOL Luna, well, there's nothing like having your ducks in a row! Keep asking it how to overcome the obstacles, and what the obstacles are. You also asked if your dream were the right one... keep focusing on the dream, exactly what you want to achieve, visualizing it, detailing it, brainstorming it, and the obstacles may disappear. :)

Minderwiz	09 Nov 2003
You might try a different divinatory method - say a horary reading in Astrology. You might try changing the deck you are using - maybe you and it don't gel for this question. However, the main thing does seem to be that you are asking the wrong question so I agree that you need to rephrase or redirect it. You might also ask whether your dream is still appropriate for you. If the answer to that one is still yes, then you need to ask why the indications seem negative. Is the struggle to achieve your main task, even if success is unlikely or to be denied? As the great philosopher, James T. Kirk said, sometimes how we face death is just as important as how we face life. BTW he also tried cheating on fate and was quite successful :)

Inana	09 Nov 2003
I know this could be an stupid answer, but sometimes the important isnt the result but the experiences you live trying it. Like with the Fool, it doesnt matter where is he going, but what he does while going, because is on the way where he learns. So... maybe you need to go for your dream even if the result is nothing? Most of the time, the only things we regret is the ones we didnt tried. Im not expressing very clearly, but i dont think you are doing nothing wrong if the answer you are getting is the same all the time.

Thirteen	09 Nov 2003
Actually, Inana, I think you expressed it perfectly. I had the same thought--it's the journey which matters, not the outcome of that journey. Perhaps going after the dream, facing these obstacles, even waiting will reveal to you a whole other dream, a new one you never considered, one with a real and powerful outcome. But I'm a little confused all the same. Luna, what ARE these outcome cards that you feel are telling you "nothing." Also, I don't know if you want to tell us what this dream is that you're being urged to follow, but that might help as well. If your dream is to see the world, then just by going on that journey you succeed. If your dream is to become a world famous Hollywood movie star...well, you might find other things along the way, but not achieve that particular outcome.

Moongold	09 Nov 2003
Hey Luna.............didn't you read that recent thread saying I can? Perhaps the Universe is requiring faith from you - a leap of faith. I like what Inana said also about the journey itself being the important thing not necessarily the outcome.

lunalafey	09 Nov 2003
leap of faith- I know it well, unfortunately it does not feed the kids. I have used different decks.....I'd get a new one and find some question to ask that was different from the rest. thirteen- outcome cards the last one was II High Priestess- reversed the way I see this one is that; as things stand now, no I'm not using my talents and until I have those 'ducks' I won't be using my talents. other cards in this spread: inner conflict- wheel reversed main delema- judgement reversed opposing forces- page of swords spiritual message- 7 of wands reversed *sigh* I want to change my profession, go back to building up my business. With a job, I have little time to devote to this- but for the moment, that's OK- as I mentioned, gotta get some ducks first. I feel a sense of loyalty to my employer- she has been through alot. One of the reasons why I don't just be a Fool and take that jump (I'm not afraid of the jump- I take leaps of faith often enough- I trust my faith) is because of the fact I am needed. (long story) I stuck things out while her husband was sick(terminal) she did not need the extra worry of trying to find a qualified replacement during these stressful times. Once he passed away (in a previous reading 'death' came up in what needs to happen position- I took it to mean my transformation-cuz I do need one-, but I kept it in mind it may be speaking literally- the man was a scorpio as well) I asked where my job goes from here now that 'he' has passed away....this one was a bit more positive than the rest, but still carried the mixed message (10 of pent/8 of swords) past= High Priestess...reversed ~she fell in this position in a 3 card PPF as well...different deck- and this is not new news to me. present= temperance...reversed future= 10 of Pentacles advise= world others attitudes= fool.....reversed challenge= page of pentacles outcome= 8 of swords YES! I feel stuck, it's my choice though. I know that as long as I stay where I am, I'm not going to get very far with my dream. now we have another ill person in the group.......and once again, responsible-dependable me sacrifices my desires to hold together someone else's ship.-oh the delays! I better get some good karma return out of all this! :D *Minderwiz- I will try and find the reading I did- asking about if my dream is the wrong one & what I 'should' be doing {i have too many different note-books} Horay would be an option if I was more familiar with astrology. *Moongold- my mother raised me by saying- "can't" is not part of our vocabulary- therefore I know I can.....but with nothing coming from the experience to survive on, I have to decide which is more important, my dream or my 3 birthed responsibilities. *Inana- I will (do to an extent; at this moment- the stagnation)follow my dream for the sole fact that I love it. My dream is to be creative- I am- I have- I do......but not at the level I want it to be. I will not stop creating no matter what. My children can't (and here the word is valid) afford a starving artist for a mom. just won't fly.

Thirteen	09 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey past= High Priestess...reversed ~she fell in this position in a 3 card PPF as well...different deck- and this is not new news to me. present= temperance...reversed future= 10 of Pentacles advise= world others attitudes= fool.....reversed challenge= page of pentacles outcome= 8 of swords So, you're shut away from the real business you want to return to--the one where you were the high priestess and knew all the mysteries (HPS/rev). You're unbalanced (Temp/rev). You SHOULD travel and get new experiences (World), but you feel too cynical and "dependable" to do that (Fool/Rev). Your challenge is to start fresh at a new job (page pent)--and the outcome is... NOT that you're stuck, but as you say, that you see this as a rock/hardplace situation. You don't want to hurt yourself--or others--on those swords but you feel trapped, held captive. This is not good. That many reversals is definately not good. But do you know what? I feel for your poor cards. You keep asking, and they keep telling you what you already know. Which I think explains what you keep getting. You're saying, "I'm stuck, I'm staying stuck, so cards, tell me where I'm going." And they say, "You're stuck. Here's what you should do--but you won't, so outcome: you'll stay stuck." And you say, "Give me a different answer." Must be frustrating for those cards. They can't give you a new outcome until you decide to stop being "responsible, dependable...sacrificing" and start doing what you really want to do. I suspect that if you start (1) investagating that new business idea and seeing if its doable and how, (2) making economies so you can do it and feed the kids, and (3) give your employer notice so she can train someone to take your place then you'll see a change in the outcome of these readings.

lunalafey	09 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen This is not good. That many reversals is definately not good. But do you know what? I feel for your poor cards. You keep asking, and they keep telling you what you already know. Which I think explains what you keep getting. (3) give your employer notice so she can train someone to take your place then you'll see a change in the outcome of these readings. [/b] you nailed it! especially the HP....she shows up so much. As for the same answer over and over- *SIGH* I keep asking they keep telling- I already know- nothing has changed so why should they- I know- I know I KNOW!.....LOL.......but I was really hoping that there might have been something I might have missed. I may have owned a deck for over 12 years, but the hands on experience is less that that.....oh well....:D giving my employer notice- that is part of the rock- she currently has an add in the paper. Been out for a week. She needs to hire someone, now.....because we are probably going to lose an empolyee to health issues. She has had 3 applicants and all live over an hour away.....that's too far on these mountain roads to ba able to depend upon someone to come to work.....I would not feel right to give notice under such conditions, would be bad on my reference sheet. So I'll just play hanged man.....*sigh* -and keep my eyes open for that door of opprotunity. __ l 0 l /l\ l __l__............__ __ __ __ !

Star Spirit	10 Nov 2003
Maybe the cards are trying to tell you that you need to follow your dream in order to realize that it's not quite what you imagined after all, and that you have another calling that's waiting to be discovered.

Inana	11 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey *Inana- I will (do to an extent; at this moment- the stagnation)follow my dream for the sole fact that I love it. My dream is to be creative- I am- I have- I do......but not at the level I want it to be. I will not stop creating no matter what. My children can't (and here the word is valid) afford a starving artist for a mom. just won't fly I understand is not so easy when others depend on you. But I know what is to be a creative person and not being able to work on that. So, yes, dont stop creating... never. Soon or later this will work, the wheel will change. Thirteen has given you good advice based on the cards. And im giving you another suggestion that maybe can help to give you some new info... Lay out the cards of that spread. For each reversed card pick up another randomly while asking how to unblock that particular aspect. The door will open.

skytwig	11 Nov 2003
This is hard to say.... you are sooooo dear...... But why are you living your boss's dream instead of yours?

lunalafey	11 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by skytwig But why are you living your boss's dream instead of yours? LOL- that's funny because it's not my bosses dream. Her husband bought the bar as a gathering place for his "crew" he 'gave' her the biz for something to do He's gone now and she just takes care of it for income.... She'd like to be free of it.

skytwig	11 Nov 2003
Then, why are you living the dream of someone who has died, instead of yours? This is where the stuckness lies..... old dream of someone else.... 'helping' the boss may not be really helping her..... she may be struggling to keep something alive that needs to go.... with all the troubles she is having, the bar may need to be sold or passed on to someone else.... but that is her concern, not yours. We can overwhelm our lives with the lives of others.... is it time for you to stop sacrificing your time and energy for someone else? Is it time to take care of your dream more than the dreams or lives of others? You have been incredibly kind and caring for this woman.... but what is the cost? Your 'life'? Your dreams? The reversed HP, for me, is always about self sacrifice, sacrifice of the Self for something other than Self..... I think the Universe places high priority on our Dharma, our Purpose.... you have been trying to force the answer with the cards and they keep telling you you are stuck.... it you were to look at that stuckness, how would you move out of it? In other words, something has to change in the outer world and it is changable now...... the dream is stuck in someone else's 'nightmare'.......

lunalafey	11 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by skytwig Then, why are you living the dream of someone who has died, instead of yours? This is where the stuckness lies..... old dream of someone else.... 'helping' the boss may not be really helping her..... she may be struggling to keep something alive that needs to go.... with all the troubles she is having, the bar may need to be sold or passed on to someone else.... but that is her concern, not yours. We can overwhelm our lives with the lives of others.... is it time for you to stop sacrificing your time and energy for someone else? Is it time to take care of your dream more than the dreams pr lives of others? You have been incredibly kind and caring for this woman.... but what is the cost? Your life? Your dreams? I hear you loud and clear- The biz has been for sale for over 4 years- almost sold a few months ago. I'm stuck in the circle of what re-percussions would come by not being there, to leave her in a hard situation that might cause the biz to close & then leave my friends (co-workers; but they are friends first) with out work. This job is a small "family" (5 of us, includes the boss/owner). I have a hard time with the thought of putting them all in a bind. In chatting with firemaiden I figured (why didn't I think of it earlier) I could ask the cards what would happen if I quit my job. I could even direct the question towards my co-workers. I feel- that my boss feels- my time is coming soon..... Currently my plan is this- at the end of the month, I should have my moms old computer. It has the program & memory I need to use the digital camera I have. Once that's in place- I'll kick start biz on-line. I will see how that goes. What I'm hoping is that I will be able to make enough $ to stay home....my boss knows I have my biz & she knows it's what I do....and she knows I'm bothered by not being able to do it. Back to the re-percussions- I sway- what would happen if I quit? bad stuff for me? them?......and what of my responsibility to myself?.....what are the re-percussions of not honoring my destiny? Now there is another issue too. some have mentioned another calling yet to be discovered. When I did these sort of readings when I was single.....they said, what I have expressed- mixed message. Then I found a soulmate...... my readings continued to say follow/fall- but now the readings have cards like the Lovers, two of wands- chariot (his #...twice) the readings included him (and in a positive way) he wants me to be his partner with his creative dream/goal......he wants to put me behind a movie camera......he wants me to 'clean-up' his scripts. In the short time together, we have brainstormed some fantastic ideas for screenplays.....I thought about making movies once.... Hmm......

skytwig	11 Nov 2003
Wuhoooooooo! Your willingness to look at this is wonderful!!! You know, one thing that I have come to realize in similar situations in my own life, is that sometimes, when we care for others, we can actually INTERFERE with their process! It may be that someone else will enter the picture for your boss, when you leave! It may be that it preventing her from 'falling', you may be preventing her from finding something helpful IN THE FALL.... am i making sense? I am a HUGE rescuer.... I had two very wounded children (their father died from cancer) and eventually, i learned that i couldn't save them from pain.... eventually i learned that their process is theirs, not mine.... that in trying to save their lives, i was not allowing them to live them!! It has been much easier for all three of us since i stopped trying to make their lives perfect. In leaving the job, you will be helping the boss and you! There is something more that is trying to enter both life situations, but as it stands right now, those gifts cannot enter..... I would think the primary thing right now is to just work at another bar..... the simple act of choosing something different will open all kinds of spiritual doors...... You will see more clearly once you are out of the Grief situation with your boss..... She too, may be much too dependent on you.... it sounds unhealthy for both of you...... HUGS, HUGS, LUNALAFEY :)

lunalafey	11 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by skytwig Wuhoooooooo! Your willingness to look at this is wonderful!!! It may be that someone else will enter the picture for your boss, when you leave! am i making sense? of course- I'm a sun moon mercury capricorn! I anylize things to death- not to mention my mouse energy- to crew things to pieces with scrutiny:D I have had that thought- I seem to have a air of 'blessing' around me- You definatly are! working at another bar is not an option. It's a very small town and the other places are 'trouble' My boss runs a tight ship & with the type of business it is- and the amount of freedoms that have been taken away from us, it would not be a wise move.....we are the only establishment that has not had a 30 day shut down for violations.

The mixed messages thread was originally posted on 09 Nov 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.