Oh no...... not the 4 of wands!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Aoife	26 Nov 2003
In a recent reading using RWS, I interpreted the 4 of wands as an [unwelcome] stage upon which I must display my abilities to an audience [who would, i feared, judge me and find my performance wanting]. Trepidation at the prospect of performing, fitted well with the overall reading. This seemed so far from accepted meaning that I went in search of some justification. I recall that Diana has written about [but, arghh... i can't find it, so in my words] a disparity, an uncomfortable fit between the solidity, structure and stability of the #four and the energy, drive and creativity of wands. Has anyone else ever perceived this card to be energy grounded in a non-productive way? Energy brought to ground, creativity stifled by an imposed order or structure? Has anyone else ever seen the bower of 4 wands as a stage, the figures and town beyond as an audience?

gloria	27 Nov 2003
Quote: Has anyone else ever seen the bower of 4 wands as a stage, the figures and town beyond as an audience? Yes I have Aoife, but as in marriage. The bride and bridegroom are about to take centre stage, with friends and family as the ‘audience.’ I’ve always felt that this card is about bonding and putting down roots, but many different walks of life this can apply, it's not just about marriage. I haven't come across the card as being energy grounded in a non-productive way, so will be interested to hear other's views on that line. Gloria.

firemaiden	27 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife Has anyone else ever seen the bower of 4 wands as a stage, the figures and town beyond as an audience? Yes! Oh, you want me to say more? (Yes. I have read this as a stage, but then again, I might tend to read almost anything as a stage). Actually, the four upright wands delineate a space -- just like tent poles. A symbolic, sacred space. So is a stage, so is a temple -- the stage is a sacred sacred space, if you stand at the center, the lights on you and the public in black, you will feel as though you are at the center of the universe. In fact, it is a symbolic universe... you would feel both very very "centered" and totally dissipated -- your Being radiating outward in all directions. As for reading it negatively, you are entitled to read it as a reversal -- Diana's method, read as reversed when you know it should be reversed... In that case, I might read it as losing your tent-pegs, coming unglued. (But that could also be a good thing)

gloria	27 Nov 2003
4/Wands reversed.........curtain coming down too soon? :)

Major Tom	27 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife In a recent reading using RWS, I interpreted the 4 of wands as an [unwelcome] stage upon which I must display my abilities to an audience [who would, i feared, judge me and find my performance wanting] . Trepidation at the prospect of performing, fitted well with the overall reading. A very valid interpretation and I think Diana has nailed it for you. You could call it "opening night nerves" and ask people to wish you "break a leg" to take the stage metaphor.

Aoife	27 Nov 2003
Sorry this is a bit rushed..... I have to head out to work, to assume my role and take the stage - lol. But in all honesty, I'm not greatly troubled by performance anxiety there these days. No, this is different.....odd. Yes Gloria, marriage! And after many years of it I can attest to the all-to-frequent 'energy dissipated' times - lol. The idea of unseated tent pegs, Firemaiden, is fascinating. It reminds me of your 9 of wands wall and my thoughts about the use of explosives and minor earthquakes to bring it down. What if the wands energy and creativity continues.... and stifled by the structure imposed by #4 eventually starts to rattle it? .......... Is this why so many marriages fail?...... Is this why creativity contained risks becoming lesser-than? Oooo, I wish I'd got time to think on this further right now - hopefully later.

gloria	27 Nov 2003
The two figures in the RW 4/Wands are very much like the pair in the Tower, dressed almost the same. Rachel Pollack writes “the Tower shows the explosion that results when people allow a repressive or miserable situation to build up to an intolerable level.” The couple in the 4/Wands are acknowledging the bower, but looks more like they are waving goodbye to it, maybe before it becomes too much of a tower-like prison for them! G.

galadrial	27 Nov 2003
Hi Aoife. I have the Blue Rose deck, and her Four of Wands actually depicts a Ballerina center stage, albeit apparantly after the show is finished and she is receiving accolades. www.tarotpassages.com/PG4W.htm I have seen this card as a need for structure, to ground creativity within a framework. Something along the lines of Robert Frost saying that writing free verse is like playing Tennis with the net down (mind you, I write free verse myself. The point is that creativity can sometimes benefit from the challange of structure). Artist Scott McCloud makes a case that cartoon artists could break out of the limits of the "boxes and panels" structure began in early newspaper days, and it's not that he doesn't have a point. However, I still find it enjoyable to see how creative an artist can be within those limitations. It is a challange that I admire seeing met well. So, to me, being creative within boundaries could be an upright interpretation. Your idea of the structure being stifling sounds like a reverse interpretation. The desire to break into free verse or draw outside the boxes can have stunning results; a creative vision might have evolved to the point of needing to break out of all confines and be defined as a singularity, not in comparison to art that plays by the "house rules", ie: the rules one is subject to when within the area defined by the four wands, be that a stage, a Haiku, or a cartoon box :-)

Aoife	27 Nov 2003
I've noticed that when people share their ideas, new trains of thought, I'm often rendered speechless for a while as I assimilate thoughts and feelings. So forgive me for not replying more fully - it is because you have all given me much to chew over. Thank you everyone - very much indeed.

skytwig	28 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden the stage is a sacred sacred space, if you stand at the center, the lights on you and the public in black, you will feel as though you are at the center of the universe. In fact, it is a symbolic universe... you would feel both very very "centered" and totally dissipated -- your Being radiating outward in all directions. Firemaiden..... I love the way you think!!!!!! :D Your perceptions truly, truly help me to See better..... thank you! I hadn't thought about this, but it is so true..... as a dancer and as an actress, I experienced such 'centeredness', such 'focus', such transcendence!!! I was in a holy place as I wandered that brightly lit place of wood and curtain.... I remember being 9 years old, dancing for the wounded, seriously wounded of WW II.... I could not see them, but I could hear them, the coughs, the murmurs, and I could sense them. I knew that many of them had head injuries that were dibilitating and I remember dancing to help them see something that they may have forgotten. I was so at home on the stage... there was no fear at all.... it was where I belonged at that moment..... firemaiden, now I understand why I never had fear on the stage.... why it always felt like I was HOME....... Thank you! And for me, that is very much reflected in the 4 of wands..... there is a sense of being where we belong, a solidity, a comfort, even...... :)

skytwig	28 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by galadrial The point is that creativity can sometimes benefit from the challange of structure). Artist Scott McCloud makes a case that cartoon artists could break out of the limits of the "boxes and panels" structure began in early newspaper days, and it's not that he doesn't have a point. However, I still find it enjoyable to see how creative an artist can be within those limitations. This is so true...... I like to give myself limitations. I remember, years ago, setting myself the limit of having to write 10 sonnets before I could write anything else. It took me a month! But oh the lessons! Structure can be a marvelous form of inspiration. We have to get clever with limitations and definition. We can also lean on it!! There is a Safety in structure. Quote: So, to me, being creative within boundaries could be an upright interpretation. The desire to break into free verse or draw outside the boxes can have stunning results; a creative vision might have evolved to the point of needing to break out of all confines and be defined as a singularity, not in comparison to art that plays by the "house rules", ie: the rules one is subject to when within the area defined by the four wands, be that a stage, a Haiku, or a cartoon box :-) And that is part of the wonder of structure..... transcending it..... I think of Henry Moore and his first pencil studies of the humans..... have you ever seen his drawings of his grandbaby??!! Wow!..... It was that discipline that led to his exploration of space and structure.... without that initial understanding, that love, even, of structure, he would never have had the 'minds on' perceptions he needed to break those rules, or expand those rules.......... Structure can be the soap box we stand on, too....... :D

The Oh no...... not the 4 of wands! thread was originally posted on 26 Nov 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.