Swords vs Staves: Air and Fire, or Fire and Air?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

mynah	26 Nov 2003
Are Swords Air and Staves Fire, or Staves Air and Swords Fire? I know the Golden Dawn used the former attributions, but I haven't found anything suggesting the practice goes back and further than that... Personally I'm a Swords=Fire, Staves=Air kind of guy. It just makes more sense to me (I'm partial to Brian Williams' four-temperament argument). So I use Swords=Air for Waite-Smith / Crowley-Harris / all derivative decks and Swords=Fire for all pre-Golden Dawn decks. Anybody got a good argument for Swords=Air, Staves=Fire?

Rusty Neon	27 Nov 2003
There is no right answer. Go with what feels right for you. I go with the GD element-to-suit correspondences, which also happen to be the same as the ones that the French language Tarot de Marseille authors use too. The way I've learned it is the following, but this won't _convince_ anyone. - Cups hold water - Swords move through air - Wands, being made of wood, can create fire - Coins represent the material things Of course, in terms of your viewpoint: - Cups hold water - Swords are forged by fire - Wands move through air - Coins represent the material things

Thirteen	27 Nov 2003
Rusty has it right. And has put it very succiently. You might want to check out the Forum Table of Contents at the top of this forum--there's been several threads on this same subject which you might find interesting.

mynah	27 Nov 2003
Thanks for responses - wasn't looking for "right" answers, just a way of understanding the situation from the opposite side. Will go check out the table of contents now...

dadsnook2000	27 Nov 2003
I did a reading in our area Tarot Circle the other week. The lady who was the querent chose the Witches Tarot -- a deck that incorporates Swords/Fire and Wands/Air into its design. I just read the cards accordingly and we had a wonderful and accurate reading. It was a blind reading, the question was given afterward. If I had used the RWS deck, for example, I would have changed my interpretation and the reading would have been off the mark. This is only a single example and my length/depth of reading experience doesn't permit me to claim this example as being anything more than that. I don't think that developing and using the flexibility to work either way is at all hurtful. Dave.

tabbycat	28 Nov 2003
I love Brian Williams' work and I tried to get behind his Swords/Fire, Wands/Air theory, but I can't. It bothers me, just doesn't sit right. I suppose I see Swords as cold steel and Wands as flaming brands, and the Golden Dawn attribution seems to fit better. Just me, I suppose. Jilly

The Swords vs Staves: Air and Fire, or Fire and Air? thread was originally posted on 26 Nov 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.