Cold Court Cards

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Thea Lynx	18 Dec 2003
Does anyone else have a problem reading the court cards? They always seem to leave me cold - have to look them up and just haven't been able to develop a feeling for any except the one that I've felt drawn to as a significator which is the Queen of Swords. Since I've begun serious study, I've felt a real relationship with all the cards, majors and numbered minors, but can't seem to connect with the courts. I'll look at a minor in a spread, play it off the major, or look at the combinations and develop the overall feel of the spread, but when a court card comes up, it's like a barrier. In the real world I'm not much of a "people person" so maybe that's my problem. Any suggestions on how I can overcome this? Once I look up the court in question I have no problem seeing it's relationship to the other cards, but it's getting started with it that's the problem. Thanks Thea

Majecot	18 Dec 2003
Perhaps you could try associating the Court Cards with people that you know in you life ( or TV). ie; their personality traits, actions, that type of thing. It helps me to remember them.

Imagemaker	18 Dec 2003
For this difficulty alone, I like the decks that don't have court cards! However, using Robin Wood as my standard deck, I look at their faces and body language, and try to get a feeling of mood (like playfulness or arrogance or despair) in addition to what I know of the suit and rank.

Nevada	18 Dec 2003
Thea Lynx, I'm curious what deck you're using. I've seen some decks that I didn't like strictly because of "wooden" court cards. They just didn't seem to show me anything. Is there one particular deck you're having this trouble with, or more than one? Because that might give a clue as to how to resolve this. I learned most of my reading skills using Thoth, and have some problems reading court cards with my newer RWS-like decks that don't use Princess/Prince/Queen/Knight as Thoth does. This is especially troublesome if the deck in question has Knights, but their meaning is what I'm used to seeing with Princes. Then there's Page/Knave, which in Thoth would be Princess. Talk about confusing. These differences could cause a new reader quite a bit of trouble I think. So what deck(s) are you using? If more than one deck, how many? Once you've answered that we may be able to help more. In any case, rest assured someone here will be able to help. :) Nevada

lunalafey	18 Dec 2003
I have a tendancy to see the courts as people I know- like mentioned above.... In fact two people, one for the positive aspects and one for the negitive. I am not a people person myself....these associations come from people through my life that I have close contact with. Another thing I do is just go with the simple associations of the suit and look at the courts as a family. Page is the inquizitive little sibling(has that happy-go-lucky nature), the Knight is the teen sibling (has a bit of teen independance- experienced, yet still learning, testing) The Queen is the mother and King is the father. King of Cups, a compassionate figure head= doctor knight of swords, a jerk that likes to talk back (immature attitude) Queen of Pentacles, single mother real-estate agent Page of Wands, child prodigy Now I realize these are specific "people"....but think about 'who' they are....what they do. Like the Queen. Being a single mom, shows independance. She cares for her family and is in a profession that has the potential for lots of money for that very reason. But the job is hard work. There is alot of physical running around trying to make that sale. To be a successful agent, she has to have a good head for business.

Kiama	19 Dec 2003
It took me years before I worked out the damn Court Cards: I still say they're th emost difficult cards in the deck to read. What I finally worked out though is based on Crowley's elemental system. I looked at all the Kings, and tried to find what they all have in common. This I called the 'essence' of the Kings. I did the same for the rest of the cards, and said that: Kings: Masters of their suit, associated with Fire, the active element. They have learned to control and use their suit to full effect. Sages. Queens: Associated with the element of Water, receptive, flowing, intuitive. They bring to birth things/ideas through themselves. Channels. Knights: Associated with the element of Air, constantly moving, to one thing constant never, flitting around, never solid, no foundation. Knights go on quests in traditional mythology, and are always searching for something. Questers. Pages: Associated with the element of Earth, fertile, rich and ready to bring into manifestation ideas and thoughts. Creative, pregnant with possibility. The First Stirrings. I then looked at each suit to see if each had an 'essence', and found: Swords: Intellect, communication, sometimes quarrels. Wands: The ego, the self, sexuality. Cups: Love, romance, the emotions. Coins: Material concerns, business, stability, nurture. So, I put them all together. The King of Wands became the Sage of the ego, the self, and sexuality. The Knight of Swords became the Quester for Intellect, communication, and sometimes quarrels. The Page of Wands became the First Stirring of the ego, self, and sexuality. The Queen of Swords became the Channel for Intellect, communication, and sometimes quarrels. I used this to meditate on the cards: what does Channel of emotions mean? What does the First Stirring of intellect say to me? The answers I got became the meanings for the Court Cards, and they were mostly similar to the traditional meanings, the difference being that I could relate to them and remember them better, apply it to the reading easier, and they were better defined in my mind. It's just one system, and there are many others around. This one works very well for me though. :D Kiama

Agathe	19 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama It took me years before I worked out the damn Court Cards: I still say they're the most difficult cards in the deck to read. I must agree to that. For some reason I know Wands very well and a bit of Pentacles...but that's about it. The rest is a bigger problem, but I think I'll use what people here suggest. I'll try to associate them with the people I know.That is a very good idea and to be honest I haven't thought about before. THANKS!!! Blessings, Agathe

Inana	19 Dec 2003
I love court cards. They are fun and inspiring. But I agree they are hard to learn... I have trouble with them sometimes too, specially the swords family. An interesting exercise is when watching a film, try to decide wich court card would suit best the characters appearing. First look for the suit and after the position: page, knight, queen, king. Sometimes you can find interesting combinations when the characters are a bit elaborated. Associating cards with known people as others have suggested is very useful. What really helped me was to fit the court cards in stereotypes: the dreamer, the intelectual, etc... and find the high and low points about those stereotypes. Associations with zodiac also can help lots. Look the courts in different decks. Some are more expresive than others. Another interesting thing to do is lay down all the court cards, and while looking at them, try to figure how each of them would react in a specific situation. How they can be at work, in love, as friends, in family... You can do it with a few adjectives and you come with a good description of the card when you are done. Or even you can try to figure how they would interact each other. Kiama: I like your system. I use it too, it really helps. But i prefer associate knights with fire and kings with air. It feels better to me cause i find knights to be more passionate and extreme in their actions.

Keslynn	19 Dec 2003
I find that many decks have courts that don't give you a lot to go on. Honestly, it helped me a lot to just use a deck that has expressive courts. The best example is probably the Spiral. I can always look at those courts and tell exactly what kind of person it is. The World Spirit is a close second. Perhaps you could try a deck with courts that speak to you more? Then you could apply some of the things you learned to other decks. :) Kes

Thea Lynx	19 Dec 2003
Wow, that's a lot of helpful input!! Nevada's struck a chord immediately - When I work with my Thoth and Thoth style decks (like Tarot of the Spirit, etc) I have no problem with the courts and they are very dynamic. In the Rider type the problem is more apparent - I do have a variety of decks (33 to date) and more of Rider type than Thoth. I did enjoy working with Spiral, Spirit, Cosmic and Thoth much more than the others and your input has helped me see why - the big difference in the way the courts are portrayed. I think I've tried memorizing Fire of Fire, Earth of Water until I'm blue in the face!! I like the idea of thinking of people I know as the court characters - that is well worth a try. Especially since the cards positively sing at times and the problem with the courts was making me feel like I was missing a good part of the message. Right now I am working with the I Am One deck and it is so different than anything else I have that all preconceptions and problems were blown away. During a power failure the other day I pulled a Celtic Cross with that deck simply because it felt like the right thing to do - hadn't planned it at all - five courts came up, and not a problem among them. This could be why my Thoth style decks always seem to be calling me to work with them. I wonder if this is an indication that those are the ones I will get the most insight from. I'd hate to give up on other wonderful ones like Aquarian and New Palladini, though. Thanks!! Thea

jmd	20 Dec 2003
In a thread long began, Choosing a Significator (which I personally never do, by the way), I mention that I may use the MBTI with the Courts. It is unfortunate that this useful tool which may help in seeing individuals' temperamental dispositions has been somewhat abused in various places. Still, as a tool which may assist in seeing how individuals may typically respond to various situations, I find it extremely useful. In various courses on Tarot, it (the MBTI) has also always (and I rarely use that word) proved very useful in helping others begin to appreciate the ways Courts may be seen as depicting temperamental differences. Another thread which discusses the usage of the MBTI and Courts is titled Court Cards and Myers-Briggs. And another thread which also discusses Court cards is When are Courts People, and when are they aspects?... these, and others, are certainly worth another look through. To give specific ideas, it may be worth considering not that a court indicates a specific individual, but the way a specific individual may respond to the situation at hand. This may indicate some guidance as to how one may respond oneself, or provide a warning as to what may proceed if one responds in such a fashion. Of course, a specific individual in the querent's life, with specific attributes one may give to the Court, may be indicated (for example, a fair-haired male with Gemini characteristics). Courts can really become quite vibrant. As others have mentioned, I would suggest to lay them out - place them into four 'castles', and begin to create stories as to not only how they interact within their 'home', but what happens as visits by some of one family (or ALL) visit another castle. There you will begin to unveil their inner dynamism... this remains, of course, but one suggestion, no more :)

LadyMedusa	21 Dec 2003
Thea Lynx, I had problems with the courts in fact, at times I still do. Have a look at the post by HudsonGray in this thread. (about the 3rd one in) It helped me greatly. It focuses less on specific human features and gender and more on the aspect of advancement. http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13369 LadyMedusa

Dexter	21 Dec 2003
I always had problems with the courts in readings. Sometimes I was sure that people could actually hear the my inner groan when one would show up in a reading. But I found that assigning a person that I know extremely well to each card was a great help. This was advise that was given in a another thread, forgive me but I can't remember which one and I want to give credit where credit is due. Because this was an extremely useful tool for me. I got out my numerous books and went over each one for the court card attributes wrote them all down in my journal and then spend time going over each one and pairing them up with a person I know. This like I mentioned earlier has been a great help.

Inana	21 Dec 2003
JMD, I totally agree with your view in using courts as aspects of a person in a determinated situation. Thats why i was speaking about each court card being an stereotype. About the Myers-Briggs system... Im not very sure what is about. Personality types categories? Do you know where i can find more information on it? It looks interesting both to link with the cards and just to know.

paradoxx	25 Dec 2003
I associate with the Knights and Kings most of all, the Queens are touchy depending on the artist of the deck but the pages give me the hardest problem. Perhaps if they were called jacks insteadn of pages i could relate better since everyone seems familiar with the playing card decks. Ok, Maybe that wouldn't help with the interpretations at all, you never know. perhaps using the zodiac representations as a template might help. The pages represent the base of the suits element itself. ..............Knights......Queens.......Kings wands....Leo............Sagitarius....Aries swords...Aquarius.....Gemini.........Libra pent.......Taurus.......Virgo...........Capricorn cups.......Scorpio.......Pisces.........Cancer As for decks that use different element representantions, the above chart may need to be altered to fit with the zodiac elements.

Little Baron	26 Dec 2003
You are not alone. Courts have always been a problem for me as well. I cannot remeber the books name as it isn't with me at the moment but I read an interesting chapter where the author put the courts, as couples, in a pub setting and described their interaction with each other. The main change, in my experience, is when I started using decks with courts that had quite extreme personalities. The Cosmic Tribes courts are anything but wooden, for example. The Phantasmagoric are also quite defined and have their own names which make them more real. For example, I don't see the Page of Swords as just that anymore. I see him as Sebastian. This probably seems a naff idea but maybe making a collage around each of the courts as part of your study might help; cutting pictures, using personal photos and items, doodles, painting etc on a sheet of paper for each may help you to get an idea of their personalities and get more focused on each one. For the Queen of Cups, you could include images together that you can meditate upon - things that help you think of her and only her. I did this in the beginning. I think that Princess Diana was part of that collage. Just an idea. Good luck and best wishes yaboot

Thea Lynx	26 Dec 2003
Hi Yaboot, Well, I have no idea what "naff" means, but I really like the suggestions you made - especially about putting the couples in a specific situation - if you come across the name of the book, please let me know - I can use all the help I can get. Sebastion?, hmm, that could work. Thanks for the input. Thea Lynx

Little Baron	26 Dec 2003
Hi Thea Lynx The guy that designed the Phantasmagoric gave all of the names, such as Sebastian. to the cards and brief stories about each character in the LWB, which as LWB's go, is very good. It is useful because you see them as 'themselves' and remember their stories rather than sitting there blank (like I remember doing sometimes) and trying to remember the essence of the courts. I have never tried it, but I suppose one could always give their courts names themselves and a background to add substance to their readings and to help memorise the meanings. Has anyone ever tried that? The book that I mentioned is 'Dancing with the Juggler'. It deals with mainly the major cards but has a few pages, as I described, about the courts. It didn't completely change my way of dealing with the courts but it helped me to look at them a little differently. They often can seem very cold. I think that most readers, at some point, have had difficulty with them, at whatever level of study they are. Best wishes and good luck. Yaboot

Little Baron	26 Dec 2003
Oh yes! I was going to add a link! As I said, in terms of just having difficulties with the court cards, it probably isn't worth shelling out the cash to buy this book. I don't have it with me but when I am back in london, I will seek it out and when I get a chance, post an example for you. Yaboot http://www.13moons.com/books/pagan_uk/dancing_juggler.htm

skytwig	27 Dec 2003
I believe this is the thread Dexter was referring to.... there is great info in this thread also :D Interpreting "People" Cards as Emotions Edited to add this thread: Court Card Tricks Both threads have nifty info....... :)

The Cold Court Cards thread was originally posted on 18 Dec 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.