top / bottom card of deck

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

joya250	02 Dec 2003
Oftentimes I'll do a reading, then check out the bottom card. It always always seems to relate -- like an underlying thought or something. Recently, I've been taking a peak at the top card on the deck as well. It too corresponds very well. I wonder what is going on here?? I always cut the deck before laying the cards, placing the bottom pile on the top. It makes me think... perhaps these cards were the "runners up" in being including in the spread. As in these cards can also tell the story, thought they might not have been the "top choice." Or perhaps they should have been included, but the spread didn't have enough positions. Or, which is really interesting to me... do you think that the appropriate cards kind of accumulate together as your shuffling. Do you know what I mean? I guess I could try and describe it as a unit of energy -- or a complete picture, that is gathered together for the purpose at hand.... regardless of how many cards you intend to lay out. For example, what if I was asking a question, and laying a 3-card spread... but a more complete analysis of the situation really existed in a 5-card combo (or whatever.) Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know if this happens to anyone else -- the top and bottom cards relating to the reading... And I don't know if anyone else finds this a fascinating as I seem to right now. haha. :) But if you have any ideas, input, or whatnot... I'd love to hear it. The tarot as an automatic "unit-generating" tool... If that is the case, I guess my next step would be to learn to better "feel" the cards... and lay out as many as needed, until the entire story is revealed. ..... OR, one could argue that ANY card could be related to the spread, if you tried hard enough. (which is true) But at that point, what is the point of laying a spread or practicing tarot in the first place, if every card "makes sense" in relation to the situation?? okay, I'm rambling. (And procrastinating on a project with a rapidly approaching deadline... but that's beside the point!) ;) joya

ros	02 Dec 2003
All I ever knew of the bottom card : use for a timing card or use for a extra outcome card or alternative outcome. Just some ideas. Top card ?

Star Spirit	02 Dec 2003
That's very interesting. Every once in a while I'll peek at my bottom card, but not to include it in the reading, just because I feel like I'm breaking some kind of rule by looking! Haha....you know, kind of like when you play cards....I'm curious.

Thirteen	02 Dec 2003
I use the Zodiac spread almost exclusively but I've added in the bottom card--always--into my reading. Everytime I do the spread I slip out the bottom card and set it down and to the side of the Zodiac circle. I set it out last, and read it first. I learned somewhere (don't know where) that the bottom card in a reading indicates underlying influences. So while the other cards may indicate what's going on on the surface of things, the bottom card can indicate what's underneath, the subconscious or id of the problem/question if you will. Thus, I always start my Zodiac spread reading by saying: "Here's what's underneath your question...."

Inana	03 Dec 2003
I use to check the bottom card, but i look at it as a confirmation about the subject of the reading. It usually works this way. Other times, when looking at it, points to another issue that is afecting the question. The one on the top i never check.

Jewel-ry	03 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by joya250 It makes me think... perhaps these cards were the "runners up" in being including in the spread. As in these cards can also tell the story, thought they might not have been the "top choice." Or perhaps they should have been included, but the spread didn't have enough positions. Or, which is really interesting to me... do you think that the appropriate cards kind of accumulate together as your shuffling. joya I find this interesting. Only this morning I was looking at Larks seekers thread in the reading exchange and it occurred to me that several of us were turning up the same cards, not always in the same position, but nevertheless the same cards were coming up. Wouldn't it be spooky if they did all accumulate together and then fight for their right to be in the spread!!! J :)

dadsnook2000	03 Dec 2003
Wouldn't it really be unsettling if we were to discover that we could use any group of cards in the whole deck to do a reading? Yes, you'd be doing a 10-card Celtic Cross spread for a reading. Just as soon as you were done, you'd lay out the next 10 cards and answer the same question -- etc., etc. What if each group told the same story in a different way? The only conclusion would be that the cards didn't matter, that the magic was truly in us. This approach might seem far-fetched but it only stretches the basic premis that the cards you did pick, or the two (top and bottom) you didn't pick, are not the magic but only the tool that releases the magic. So, it just might be that it doesn't matter whats on the top, on the bottom, or anywhere else. You'll drive yourself nuts. Just read the spread. Lots of luck. Hope you haven't gone daffy the next time I see you. Dave.

miss_apples	03 Dec 2003
I look at the bottom car everyonce in a while....I also read any cards that accidently fall out while the cards are being shuffled.

Scorpion	03 Dec 2003
Hi, Joya! I've always understood the bottom card to be the "hidden message" and I find it works very well as the thread to hang the whole reading on. As a corollary, I regard the top card as "stating the obvious" and that seems to fit for me too. As for the "Zodiac" spread Thirteen mentions, I don't know if I'm using the same one but I use Majors only and I've just done two for Scorpios in quick succession (with different decks and fully shuffled) and the bottom card for each has been XIII Death: very appropriate!

joya250	03 Dec 2003
hey Scorpian I like that! Bottom card = hidden messages / top card = stating the obvious That works. However.... I have a question... did you KNOW before hand that the querents were Scorpios? If so, then shouldn't have the "top" card been Death?? hmmmm, just a thought...

Scorpion	03 Dec 2003
Joya Yes, I did know they were both Scorpios but to be honest I had no intention of looking at either the top or the bottom card in these readings - uncovering them was quite accidental! After all, if you're already using 12 of the Majors in the reading you're just in danger of ending up using them all. Truly, I never intended to look, but there He was!

Thirteen	03 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by joya250 did you KNOW before hand that the querents were Scorpios? If so, then shouldn't have the "top" card been Death?? Ah, no--because Scorpios run deep and love secrets. No self respecting Scorpio would have wanted that card (their symbolic card) at the top where anyone could see it. So the deck wisely hid it on the bottom, where it remained a secret. Also, in being at the bottom of the deck, the deck reiteratates that "run deep" aspect. A reader would need to go through the entire deck to finally get to the bottom of a Scorpio. I think it was very clever and apt and honest of that deck to have the "Scorpio" card at the bottom.

Scorpion	04 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen No self respecting Scorpio would have wanted that card (their symbolic card) at the top where anyone could see it... I think it was very clever and apt and honest of that deck to have the "Scorpio" card at the bottom. Precisely, Thirteen! And two completely opposite decks in terms of style - the first was the Ananda and the second was the Bosch, as I wanted to take two totally different approaches.

Majecot	04 Dec 2003
Interesting.... I never look at the bottom card, sometimes I cut the deck sometimes not, just depends on the "feel". But when I am playing with a poker deck I cut and look. Something I have never felt the urge to do with Tarot.

wynde	04 Dec 2003
yeah i usually check out the bottom card of the deck and think of it as how the message of the reading will be accepted. a card for me in other words, i don't share it. the top card i don't look at because i usually use them for clarification cards anyway. interesting thought from all. thanks!

Shade	06 Dec 2003
When I was first reading I read the top card on the stack as the outcome that could be and the bottom card as the one that will never be, as if it was the farthest possibility from being in the deck.

rexenne2003	08 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Scorpion Hi, Joya! I've always understood the bottom card to be the "hidden message" and I find it works very well as the thread to hang the whole reading on. As a corollary, I regard the top card as "stating the obvious" and that seems to fit for me too. So how would that work with a spread that has a position for the hidden message/underlying issues? Would it be a clarification to those layed in that position?

Scorpion	08 Dec 2003
It would get you to the "true" heart of the matter - something the querent really doesn't want you to know!

rexenne2003	08 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Scorpion It would get you to the "true" heart of the matter - something the querent really doesn't want you to know! Ummmm I see. BTW I love your signature!!

Scorpion	08 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by rexenne2003 Ummmm I see. BTW I love your signature!! Or, of course, it could simply be an angle they'd never considered. Thanks - I'm an Annie fan!

The top / bottom card of deck thread was originally posted on 02 Dec 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.