VI and XII connection

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

wynde	06 Dec 2003
i've been doing some thinking... thinking about the lovers and the nature of the sacrifice indicated. then thinking about the hanged man and the nature of the sacrifice there. how are they different, the same? just tossing it around in my head. here's what i decided... all choices have consequences both positive and negative. all choices have immediate as well as long term consequences. that being said... the lovers would indicate a choice made for immediate gratification (love, sex, partnership, whatever) but with the long term consequences (sacrifice) of having only the one instead of many, or independence and freedom. then the hanged man would indicate a choice were immediate sacrifice is willingly endured in order to enjoy gratification or benefits for the long term. (spiritual enlightenment, inner peace, absolution) i realize there are many other aspects to both of these cards but i think a connection can be drawn with respect to both sacrifice and consequence. also applicable to this discussion is the numerological connection between the cards, the lovers VI being half of the hanged man XII. has anyone drawn the same connection? do you agree? disagree? wynde

Thirteen	07 Dec 2003
There is an argument, convincing I think, that the 0-10 cards respresent lessons and life in the "earthly" world, while 11-21 represent spiritual lessons and life. In which case your observation would be quite apt. The Lovers would be the earthly choices we make and their consequences, the Hanged man, a spiritual mirror of that earthly card, representing higher and more etheral choices. The only problem is that it's difficult to match up other cards likewise. Zero (The Fool) and the Univese (21), however, certainly reflect each other being the alpha and omega of the deck.

jmd	07 Dec 2003
It is wonderful to reflect and see deep connections between any two cards... in this case, with choices (which necessitates consequent possible sacrifices) and sacrifice (which implies deep choice and decision to engage in particular ways). Each of the cards can be wonderfully viewed as reflecting aspects of other cards. For example, to take VI the Lovers, if one considers it in relation to the first card - I the Magician - one can see how they each reflect working with what one needs to engage with. With II the High Priestess, each reflects the inner qualities which need to be entered for choices to be made... etc. Personally, I do not see that the sacrifice(s) have to necessarily do with gratification, whether immediate or delayed. The Lovers may show a situation in which a choice has to be made - irrespective as to whether the option not chosen is really a sacrifice - whereas the Hanged Man may be sacrifice - without necessarily choice between two 'equals' entailed. Still, what is here also very important is the deepened reflections you have unveiled and shared with us. Reflections and insights which also add to our own individual insights as we reflect further on those of others... so thankyou. Nonetheless, as mentioned, VI & XII have wonderfully connected senses. That they also happen to have a mathematically simple connection only adds to one's reflections. As Thirteen mentions, the first half of the sequence is sometimes described as the Earthly half, the second as Heavenly (& I personally, though of course with many others, place the un-numbered Fool last). To see the relation which may exist between cards from each of these groupings certainly yields many wonderful results. I will take this pairing (VI/XII) and further reflect on their combination...

ros	11 Dec 2003
When I think of choices for the Lovers, it is the choice the heart has to be made etc. & then the Devil 15=6 would be a bad choice. Both being a number 6. Those I use for choices but I understand how the other works also. If you look at the 2 cards together there is a lot in common. The Lovers is bright etc. the Devil is dark. I'm using Rider Waite.

wynde	11 Dec 2003
thank you for your respective thoughts on this. jmd, i am willing to admit that my view of the IV card is slightly more negative than most, and your point about there not necessarily being a sacrifice involved has been taken into account. perhaps my own feelings about the sacrifice involved in monogamy have brought an untraditional slant to my interpretation of this card. but then the beauty of tarot is in its subjective nature, right? ros, you point about the devil card being a choice is very interesting and something that i hadn't considered in that way. i always had a strong sense of internal bondage connected with that card but reading what you wrote made me think that internal bondage can only be a choice, whether conscious or not, so thank you for that insight.

TemperanceAngel	12 Dec 2003
I have never thought of the Hanged Man being sacrifice, but I can see how that can make sense. I also see XII, being a wonderful eccentric/alternative card. He hangs there so peacefully, also enlightened, but his upside-down state does not always mean in a conventional sense. 12=1+2=3, we see the link with The Empress, the feminine. Fertility and growth. Passion and creation. Do things make for an unconventional life? Do they lead to stagnation? Well, yes and no on both accounts. To see XII come from The Empress, sheds a new light on the situation. The Lovers can be confusing at times, and this confusion, for me, comes from their name. Nine times out of ten when I read for people they always point it out and take it so 'literally', even when I show them other ways with this card, I know their mind is already made up on what they think it means! As for the Devil, he gets a lot of bad press, he is after all, just a fallen angel and we have all been that at times (meant with much humour!) XTAX

ros	12 Dec 2003
I find that when the Lovers show up, the ones that are "in Love" or a new relationship love this card. Also the ones that are thinking about someone new, loves this card. People who are stable or have nothing going on in their life don't get excited when Lovers show up. Motto: Look at their expressions, on their faces & their words, friends or not, you should get an idea where there thoughts are. So the hangman may show how we hung ourselves over sacrifices! Just ideas.

ros	12 Dec 2003
P.S. The Hangman also I've read are "hangups" that we have.

The VI and XII connection thread was originally posted on 06 Dec 2003 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.