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2 of Cups- love or friendship?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.



Jypsie  25 Jan 2004 
I've seen the 2 of Cups defined as a marriage card, but I've also seen it represent platonic love, i.e. friendship. I find this confusing- which is it? In the RWS-style decks, I see two people toasting one another. They could be getting married I guess, and sharing a wedding toast. Or they could be toasting friendship and understanding! I am confused, I don't know how to interpret this card really. How do you guys see it? 


firemaiden  25 Jan 2004 
Hi there Jypsie, I usually think "love" as soon as I hear "two of cups".

Depending on the question, the situation, the surrounding cards, the querent, and the way the breeze is blowing at that moment, I might read it as love, friendship, marriage, partnership, union, communion, sharing, sex, exchange, getting involved with someone, having a date, angelic intervention, being emotionally reached by someone, passion, (passion for a person, or for work, for a country, an animal, a thing, onself.. anything), devotion, feeling moved, coming into contact with the "divine", or the "mystery", conversion et coetera....

The RWS image does remind me a lot of the nuptial custom of bride and groom feeding one another champagne and cake. The ritual of drinking together also suggests a solemn oath of brotherhood, or friendship.

I created the Two of Cups card for the Aeclectic Second Annual Community Tarot, would you like to see it? 


allibee  25 Jan 2004 
Everything Firemaiden said, LOL

BUT ... The two cups also feature similarily in Temperance, where their contents are blended beautifully, don't you think?

:) 


firemaiden  25 Jan 2004 
Quote:
Originally posted by allibee
two cups also feature similarily in Temperance, where their contents are blended beautifully, don't you think?


Absolutely. I think of the Two of Cups as a minor card version of the Lovers Card and of the communion/alchemical union aspect of Temperance. :D 


Rusty Neon  25 Jan 2004 
To me, the RWS 2 of Cups can represent the full range of romantic affairs - from the heart-thumping first meeting to lifetime commitment. However, I would carve out Platonic love from the RWS 2 of Cups as I see that concept represented by the RWS 3 of Cups. 


Jypsie  25 Jan 2004 
That's a really interesting note about Temperance, it rings a bell with me. Lemme explain a tad why I am trying to get a better grasp.
A little more than a month ago, I had a magical experience with the 2 of Cups. It popped up all day long as I was breaking in a new deck, 2 of Cups everywhere! It was encouraging to me because my fiance and I were having problems.
(here, now, some people may roll their eyes because if you have seen any of my posts or done a reading for me lately, you know this is PREEMINENT in my mind. I'm having a very hard time right now, as he has currently stepped away from me to be with another girl)
I laid out a spread yesterday that I call the "Two Paths" spread. It shows a present situation, and 2 divergent paths to choose from, and overall advice. One path is me, the other path is her. I drew the 2 of Cups in the future position for her and the 6 of Cups for the future position with me.
I can see this 2 ways, which is why I ask. The 2 of Cups can mean marriage for her and the 6 of Cups can mean fond memories of me. OR, the 2 of Cups can mean a platonic understanding with her, and the 6 of Cups can mean an "old flame" returns. I have seen both interpretations for both cards. My intuition is frazzled in this circumstance because of my nearness to the issue.

Now for Temperence (here you go, alibee)- I have had a separate magical phenomenon with it relating to the same situation. Nearly every spread I have done about this issue over the past month or so has included, somewhere, the Temperence card! It's interesting to note someone else making the same observation. 


firemaiden  25 Jan 2004 
MAGIC ! you said the magic word! Here is what I wrote for the SACT:
Quote:
Love, passion, magic, miracles. With dreams and lovemaking: a barrier is bridged, be it the veil between real and unreal, between earth and heaven, between prose and poetry, or day night, male and female. With the miracle of love, comes the explosion of color into the greyness of ordinary life; a heretofore-unknown splendour dusts the world like a veil of rose light, and we see as through "rose colored glasses". Or, perhaps is it rather, that the muddy veil of clouded vision finally lifts to reveal the truth of beauty underneath? For many of us, love and sex is as close as we will get to Nirvana, to the experience of God.
 


ros  25 Jan 2004 
2 of cups I use as a friendship . A comfortable relationship that doesn't have to involve Love.Can be either sex also because some men have feminine qualities & some women have male qualities. With the Lovers card beside the 2 of cups then it would be a lover or more of an emotional feeling.I just feel the 2 of cups is like connecting with someone.A connection of another soul. Then you see how your friendship or relationship grows.
Just an idea. 


Jypsie  25 Jan 2004 
Quote:
For many of us, love and sex is as close as we will get to Nirvana, to the experience of God.


Interesting! I said last night (this morning, rather, as we have been staying awake til 5 am discussing why all this is panning out the way it has) "I don't believe in love anymore. Love is just a feeling produced by a chemical in our body and it therefore doesn't exist as anything other than a scientific anomaly, it is not a real emotion." OK, that's me playing pity party. But then he said to me "If you don't believe in love, then you don't believe in God."

Magic.... I wish I understood why it sometimes works for us and more times against us.

I wonder what might be some other correlations b/w the 2 of Cups and Temperence. I have noticed a definate relationship b/w the 2, besides the fact that 2 cups appear on each card! 


Keslynn  25 Jan 2004 
I see the 2 of Cups as love, but I also see it as the very beginning passionate stages. I see it as a reflection of the High Priestess rather than the Lovers since they share the same number. I think the 2 of Cups is that hot glance across the room and the inner realization that this is someone you want to give it a shot with. But personally, I don't see the 2 as very stable or particularly easy to understand. Like you were discussing, what is this whole love thing? The Priestess knows, but she's not sharing. You've got to learn it yourself. Also, two is a duality, and those two can either fight it out or balance one another. For example, contrast the 2 of cups with the 2 of swords to see the different capablilities of this energy expressed through different elements.

:) Kes

PS - Don't give up on love, even if you have to give up on a person. 


firemaiden  25 Jan 2004 
From , by Tom Robbins (1980):
Quote:
...I guess in all fairness, I should say one more thing about making love stay.

When the mystery of the connection goes, love goes. It's that simple. This suggests that it isn't love that is so important to us, but the mystery itself. The love connection may be merely a device to put us in contact with the mystery, and we long for love to last so that the ecstasy of being near the mytery will last.

It is contrary to the nature of mystery to stand still. Yet it's always there, somewhere, a world on the other side of the mirror (or the Camel pack), a promise in the next pair of eyes that smile at us. We glimpse it when we stand still.

The romance of new love, the romance of solitude, the romance of objecthood, the romance of ancient pyramids and distant stars are means of making contact with the mystery. When it comes to perpetuating it, however, I got no advice. But I can and will remind you of the two most important facts I know:

(1) Everything is part of it.

(2) I's never too late to have a happy childhood.
 


lark  25 Jan 2004 
I also see a healing aspect to this card.
A kind of love you feel emotionally and physically comfortable with.
No games
An acceptance of each other as you are.
The kind of relationship that is healing, not hurting.
Where each has the others best interest at heart. 


skytwig  25 Jan 2004 
Quote:
Originally posted by Keslynn
I see the 2 of Cups as love, but ... I see it as a reflection of the High Priestess rather than the Lovers since they share the same number. ... But personally, I don't see the 2 as very stable or particularly easy to understand. Like you were discussing, what is this whole love thing? The Priestess knows, but she's not sharing. You've got to learn it yourself. Also, two is a duality, and those two can either fight it out or balance one another. For example, contrast the 2 of cups with the 2 of swords to see the different capablilities of this energy expressed through different elements.
Yes.... I think there is much more to the 2 cups than we typically assign to it.... there has to be because some of us do not indulge in the fine practice of romantic love. Yes, it can be about relationship, but I suspect that it has far more to do with the High Priestess than we notice.

What WOULD She say about the 2 cups, the 2 swords, the 2 wands, the 2 pentacles? How do those cards reflect an aspect of Who She Is, who She is in each of us?

Is it a deep love of Self, a devotion to Self, a devotion to Spirit? A devotion to loving the Universe.... to intuiting the heart? To sharing the depths of one's heart with another, to someone else, to another person or being?

Hmmmmm...... could it be communication between us and our Guardian Angel? :) 


Rusty Neon  25 Jan 2004 
For interesting gradations along numerological lines (and really more in the context of non-scenic pips) and not necessarily in chronological order of occurrence, here's a set of Cups suit meanings from Corrine Morel's book in French on the Tarot de Marseille minor arcana:

Ace of Cups: Independence, Encounter / Abandonment
2 of Cups: Couple / Conflict
3 of Cups: Shared Passion / Destructive Passion
4 of Cups: Marriage / Distances
5 of Cups: Change / Drifting Apart
6 of Cups: Love / Frustration
7 of Cups: Growth / Rupture
8 of Cups: Misunderstanding / Obstination
9 of Cups: Affective Choice / Infidelity
10 of Cups: Return / Fizzling Out

Valet of Cups: Romantic / Isolation
Queen of Cups: Continuity, Settling Down / Agressivity
Knight of Cups: Communication / Adaptable
King of Cups: Seduction / Insatisfaction

In terms of the RWS images, I can see, for example,

Ace of Cups:
New Beginnings of Love / Marriage (sacramental cup)
2 of Cups: Love, Betrothal, Going Steady
3 of Cups: Platonic Love
4 of Cups: Boredom
5 of Cups: Feeling Deserted
6 of Cups:
Early Stages in the Relationship / Nostalgia for those times
7 of Cups: Lust / Playing the Field, Temptation, Mid-Life Crisis
8 of Cups: Leaving the Relationship
9 of Cups: Happy being Single
10 of Cups: Married with Children and all that this entails 


allibee  25 Jan 2004 
If you relate the two cups to the 2 HP, then we are talking a cold kinda relationship, possibly one based on just mutual attraction, and a certain mystery they see in each other that comes with 'I shouldn't be doing this'.

The twos to me are mirrors that bring together opposites:

2 Cups - 2 opposite emotions
2 Swords - 2 opposite mindsets
2 Pentacles - 2 opposite needs
2 Wands - 2 opposite ideas

The 6 Cups on the other hand can be seen not only in fondness, but as a deepening of an already established relationship, one in which maybe one can feel safe ... like a child almost. There is much that can be said for a deep, understanding relationship over a flash in the pan.


A. 


skytwig  25 Jan 2004 
Quote:
Originally posted by allibee
The twos to me are mirrors that bring together opposites:

2 Cups - 2 opposite emotions
2 Swords - 2 opposite mindsets
2 Pentacles - 2 opposite needs
2 Wands - 2 opposite ideas
I like that. :) Also, isn't 2 the first step away from one, being alone..... the beginning of "other". 


The 2 of Cups- love or friendship? thread was originally posted on 25 Jan 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.

 
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