Crystal prisms on cards

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Imagemaker	17 Jan 2004
Following jmd's suggestion in How's your 78-week study going? about expanding discussion points that come up in our descriptions -- I had wondered in my posts on the Haindl deck about the prisms over the heads of the Empress and Emperor. The Empress has a 6-faceted crystal over her head, with shadings of various colors on each face. The Emperor has a 4-facet crystal over his head. In the discussion of the two cards in this and other decks, several people noted that the Emperor was more direct, less complicated than the Empress in both imagery and meaning. It seems that the crystals might indicate that (6:4). Anyone who has insights or other crystal examples, please join us in exploring this!

Jewel-ry	17 Jan 2004
Imagemaker, I havn't time to look at this now but just to let you know I will have a think about it. I admit it would be interesting to know more. I'll bet there are crystals on a lot of cards. J :)

jmd	18 Jan 2004
The Haindl is not a deck I use, and had to relook at the images before I could make any comments. I haven't re-looked at the whole deck, but focussed only on these two cards, and the 'prisms' in particular. Having constructed many times, in both two- and three-dimensional representations, the platonic solids, what I immediately saw were two of these. Above the Empress, a cube, and above the Emperor, an octahedron (a four-sided pyramid above another upside-down four-sided pyramid). Interestingly, these have, respectively, been at times connected to two of the four elements. The Cube of the Empress to Earth, and the Octahedron of the Emperor to (depending on which source) Air or Fire - most attribute it to Air, but I tend to prefer, for reasons I would need some space to outline, its attribution to Fire. These two are also, incidentally, reciprocal forms, in the sense that if you take a cube and join the centre of each of its faces (sides) to the centre of each of its adjacent faces, an octahedron results. Similarly, taking the centre of each of the faces of the octahedron and joining each to each of the centre of its adjoining faces yields a cube. Why Haindl chose those particular shapes for the two cards may be partly as a result of the lack of coronets normally crowning these figures. The Jewels - or regular prisms - may here signify that still they reign with regular authority. She over the realm of Earth, he over the intellectual realm (I am not saying that I agree with these associations - just that this seems to possibly be suggested). I do not have the books which Rachel Pollack wrote to accompany the deck, and it would be most interesting to read what she has to say of these, given that she worked with Haindl. Anyhow, hope this helps in further discussions :)

Imagemaker	18 Jan 2004
Quote: Above the Empress, a cube, and above the Emperor, an octahedron (a four-sided pyramid above another upside-down four-sided pyramid). Thanks so much, jmd. I will ponder your, as always, deep knowledge of tarot symbolism. But a question from a geometrically challenged reader: Over my Haindl Empress, I see 6-facets--that's the top of a cube? Isn't that the top half of a whole 12-sided thing--a hexideco-something or am I remembering solid geometry totally wrong? I have the small Pollack handbook on the deck. On the Empress card, she says: "There is an additional Rune in the card, one that forms a central symbol in the deck. This is Hagall, which is formed out of the six lines found within the crystal above the Empress's head, and is also shown in the Chairiot. Hagall means "hail" but also refers to snowflakes or ice crystals. The Norse people who conceived the Runes understood the crystal as the primary form of creation and called this Rune the "Mother Rune" because all other Runes may be formed within it." --And there are ice crystals on the Magician card. In another thread, someone asked if there was one symbol that appeared on every card--so far the Haindl has a crystal on each major. The statement of "crystal as the primary form of creation" fascinates me--and living in the icy depths of New England, I can understand why the Norse believed that! I'm wondering what geological stones have crystalline structures that match the octohedrons or cubes--isn't salt a cube crystal? "Salt of the earth" related to the Empress' cube somehow? Any geologists out there? The ever-intersecting layers of knowledge and differing arenas continue to emerge.

Macavity	18 Jan 2004
Having the advantage of the "combined" book to hand, I see R.P. relates the hexagonal bi-pyramid(?!) to (Haindl's take on) the Hagel rune (as an intersection of three lines in star formation) This alludes to hail... snowflakes... crystals... the Nordic "primary form of creation"... hence the Mother rune etc. Hmmm... Fair enough! Me? I imagined it might reflect the 12 jewels in the more usual crown? :D The Emperor's "jewel" is (by the same token) indeed an octahedron. On a quick scan of the text, I don't see it mentioned? But then the emperor just seems to have a LOT of "four-ness" associations by convention? }) Macavity

Imagemaker	18 Jan 2004
Quote: an octahedron. On a quick scan of the text, I don't see it mentioned? No, Pollack didn't mention the Emperor's crystal at all.

jmd	18 Jan 2004
In geological specimens, salt usually occurs in cubic crystaline form, and fluorite as octahedra. The 'cube' above the Empress - if cube - shows not the top of a cube, but a whole box, a whole cube. If you cover the bottom section of the hexagon, and imagine the darkened (& Runic) triangular section as the inside of a box, your perception may alter to seeing it as a cube. If it was an icosahedron (a twenty-sided platonic solid), the 'top' would only have five triangles joined. In addition to being a cube, it is, of course, also an hexagon - a two-dimensional figure with many wonderful properties - such as the Rune Hagel depicted by its internal diagonals *, an aspect I had not considered. If one wants to also extend one's perception of the depiction above the Emperor, the 'prism' is also one view of a transparent tetrahedron (a three-sided pyramid) - I had avoided mentioning this yesterday as it takes a fair amount of familiarity with the Platonic solids to see this easily.

TemperanceAngel	18 Jan 2004
I really want to understand this more, can someone please give me a link where I can look at the card, thanks :) XTAX

jmd	18 Jan 2004
The cards can be viewed at Tarot.com... if you click on the individual cards, you'll be able to zoom in :)

The Crystal prisms on cards thread was originally posted on 17 Jan 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.