Devil & The Chariot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

ros	09 Jan 2004
Both of these cards have a controlling element behind them. The Chariot as how do we take control over something we have no control over. The Devil as something that has unfair control over us but we are freely wearing the chains. Are these not somewhat the same & both of a question of control? Thanks for any replys.

ros	09 Jan 2004
"where does your mind take you?" Look at the Rider Waite cards if you will. The Chariot has transformed into The Devil. There are some things which are similar but different. Chariot- man has 8 stars on forehead, Devil- a 5 stars Chariot a wand of some kind, Devil a burning stick Chariot- has 2 sphinxes, Devil- 2 people Chariot- no reins , Devil- chains Does this tye into the control question I posted first? This is new to me & just thought some of you may like to check it out also. It may mean nothing, but after my post I began to think about this & now this is where I am at. Usually I use the Devil as bad choices made from the Lovers. They both are 6's. But now the Chariot thing has evolved.

~X~	09 Jan 2004
I've always seen the chariot as learning how to fine tune "control". Learning the fine art of give and take. The charioteer needs to know when to use the reins and when to let the horses run freely. The Devil has always been more about the two chained to him, to me. In one aspect, it's about lack of control; addiction, lust etc. the other is giving one's control away. At any rate, I agree, control is an issue in both.

Emiac	06 Feb 2004
chariot is more of authority & taking control. the devil shows lust & all of the things that take control of us.

MeeWah	06 Feb 2004
Emiac: A belated welcome to Talking Tarot! Your takes on The Chariot & The Devil in terms of control very succinct. The Chariot speaks of self-empowerment, oft acquired from learning to make choices through discernment (6-The Lovers). The flip side of 7-The Chariot is 16-The Tower, or the loss of control through circumstance, outside forces or by one's own actions. The Devil about giving up or giving away one's personal power &/or sense of balance (14-Temperance). The flip side of 15-The Devil is 6-The Lovers, whereby one learns to make the appropriate choices; also sees things in their relative aspects.

Phoenyx*	06 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by MeeWah The flip side of 7-The Chariot is 16-The Tower, or the loss of control through circumstance, outside forces or by one's own actions. The flip side of 15-The Devil is 6-The Lovers, whereby one learns to make the appropriate choices; also sees things in their relative aspects. I know this is a silly thing to notice, that probably everyone has noticed before, but is the numerical link intended? For instance 6 (the Lovers) and 15 (The Devil), both equal 6....6=6 and 1+5 = 6... The same for 7 (The Chariot) and 16 (The Tower)... 7=7 and 1+6 =7. Does this give some sort of hint into the meanings of the numbers themselves?

MeeWah	07 Feb 2004
Triquetra: Not a silly thing at all but observant :) & yes, this offers insight into the meanings of the numbers of the cards as the numbers have significance. Based on a personal view of numerical connections in Tarot, I posted accordingly. 15-The Devil may be seen as the Shadow of 6-The Lovers; 16-The Tower as the Shadow of 7-The Chariot. Angeles Arrien first did a study on the subject which was later expanded upon by Mary K. Greer. In terms of personal cards (Personal/Soul Cards) based on the birth date & from an interpretive view of cards in a throw, an examination of the related cards offer much insight. Briefly, then: 6 represents harmony, loyalty, service, selflessness, redemption. The opposite represented as conflict, betrayal, selfishness. 15 represents temptation, pride, materialism, ambition, the ego-centric. The opposite is freedom; triumph. 7 represents mastery, success, action, recognition, initiation. The opposite is impracticality, laziness, ignorance. 16 represents drastic change, volatility, enlightenment. The opposite is destructive forces; oppression. There are likely other meanings that could be associated.

MeeWah	24 Feb 2004
This thread being moved to Using Tarot Cards, a wee after the fact.

The Devil & The Chariot thread was originally posted on 09 Jan 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.