The Whore With the Grail (Or, Strength and the Ace of Cups-Qabalistically Speaking)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	04 Jan 2004
Dear all, I did a very interesting reading last night for my Hermetic magician friend. The reading was focusing on his magical life and development during this year: something that to a Thelemite like him is a very important thing indeed. Anyway, in the reading the Strength card and the Ace of Cups popped up side-by-side. I wasn't using the Thoth deck, but these days I often link to the Thoth's concepts in a reading if they are relevant, and for the Strength card I began to explore the concept of the Lust (Strength card) from the Thoth deck. In the Thoth deck, Lust (Strength) shows the Whore Babylon, Crowley's representative of the Goddess and Divine Feminine. In Thelema, the first goal of magical work is to gain knowledge and conversation of your Holy Guardian Angel, and this is what the Temperence card refers to. But after that, the next goal of a Thelemite's magical work is to gain union with the Whore of Babylon. Why? Not only is She the Goddess, but she also bears the Holy Grail, represented by the Ace of Cups. So, for a Thelemite, the Strength card and the Ace of Cups represent this attainment of union. And it all comes from the Bible, Revelations 17:3: I found it very interesting to see this link between the Strength card and the Ace of Cups. Even more interesting if there is a Knight of Cups: a Grail-Knight... }) So, I thought I'd share that with you, since I thought it was interesting. :D Kiama

DeLani	05 Jan 2004
I just find it so interesting that anything related to a goddess in the Hebrew and Christian writings is automatically filthy, a whore, etc. I think Daniel did have a revelation, but what he saw was the eventual return of the Great Goddess, but his patriarchal mind couldn't concieve of it any other way.

mzmystic	05 Jan 2004
Yeah, that goddess/whore----madonna/whore?----thing leaped out at me, too.

Macavity	05 Jan 2004
(At the risk of a repeat plug - I probably shouldn't quote text) Duquette in his new "Understanding the Crowley Thoth" does discuss some of these issues. Fwiw "The Great Whore drinking the Blood of Saints" is illustrating the "Ecstatic dissolution of all we are" into the "Universal Godhead". (Well probably!) The whore, as a concept, is used, because she (as the supernal triad's Binah) is "receptive to all" etc. He does compare this to the Virgin Mary - obviously(!) a rather different idea? ;) But who can ever be sure whether Crowley is being precious, winding people up, liked to throw in a few "rude words", was serious or just plain certifiable? (not wishing to offend anyone!) Perhaps all of these and more? Still, quite entertaining stuff and genuinely intriguing... :D "For she hath yielded herself up to everything that liveth and hath become a partaker in it's mystery". Hmmm... The rest of the night will be cloudy with occasional rain showers, clearing towards dawn... }) Macavity

Diana	06 Jan 2004
The Cup that the Whore of Babylon held is the Holy Grail???? Did Crowley say this, or is this someone's interpretation of what he said? The Holy Grail contains "abominable things and the filth of her adulteries"? Is this some kind of a joke? If Crowley said that, he is even more of an idiot than I supposed. (And I already supposed quite a lot.)

allibee	06 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana If Crowley said that, he is even more of an idiot than I supposed. (And I already supposed quite a lot.) LOL Diana, well put ... and I must say I agree with you totally allibee (Heathen at large)

Kiama	08 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana The Cup that the Whore of Babylon held is the Holy Grail???? Did Crowley say this, or is this someone's interpretation of what he said? The Holy Grail contains "abominable things and the filth of her adulteries"? Is this some kind of a joke? If Crowley said that, he is even more of an idiot than I supposed. (And I already supposed quite a lot.) Later on in the passage it also says that 'she was drunk with the blood of the Saints', and it is said that the blood of the Saints was in the Holy Grail. Remember that this is the Bible talking about things here: the 'abominable things and the filth of her adulteries' may not actually be what they say they are. There is a thread in the Thoth study group called 'Liber Legis: Lust Card', which explores the Lust/Strength card in the Whore of Babylon context. It explains how the representative of the Goddess had sex with the soon-to-be-crowned King, in order for him to be crowned so. Her 'adulteries' (in the passage she is also said to have had sex with all the Kings of the land, pointing once more to the aforementioned King-making process) are viewd as swuch by the writer of Revelations, but they are viewed differently by those who perceive teh King-making in a different way. (Anyway, it's all explained better in the other thread.) In Thelema, when you attain union with Babylon, you drain your blood into the Cup that she holds, and she receives you. (She refuses no man, nor woman to her bosom, just like many other deities. This can be seen in a sexual way, because one gains union with Her, and becomes one with Her, just as we do when we make love to another person.) Don't forget also that Babylon (and indeed any female deity) is the Holy Grail anyway: many see the Grail as a representative of the Divine Female, just as the Sword or Spear is the Divine Male. So, when the Thelemite gains union with Babylon (Strength/Lust card), he also finds the Holu Grail (Ace of Cups.) Personally, I like Crowley, and don't think he was an idiot at all. I have found that whilst his personality left alot to be desired, he was nothing short of a genius when it came to magic. He knew what he was talking about, and I respect him and most of his works highly for that. He studied alot, and his insights were drawn from a diverse range of subjects: mainly Yoga, Eastern religion, Qabbalah, and the medieval Hermetic texts. But understanding his philosophy does take a while: and it also requires some sort of perception-shift for a while: you've got to kind of change how you see certain concepts, for the short time that you are studying whatever part of his philosophy you are looking at at that time. So, instead of seeing 'abominable filth of her adulteries', we use a perception change, and see it from a different point of view. Diana and Allibee: Have you read any of Crowley's works? Alot of people who dislike Crowley have not read his works. I used to dislike him, but then I read teh Book of Thoth, Book of the Law, and I became engrossed from there on... And I discovered that his supposed 'idiocy' was created more by the media than anything else, and that without his works and philosophy, half of what we know about Tarot and Western esoterica today, we wouldn't. So, I guess that's a 'yay' for Crowley from me. Kiama

miss_apples	08 Jan 2004
You cant take what the bible says word for word. The bible is pretty much written in metaphors, also it was inturpreted many times in many different languages by men who had nothing to do with the stories of the bible. So its kind of like the game of telephone...you tell a story so much that it gets horribly distorted. The way I see it,,,is that if there is no good without evil. I think what the "whore" is doing is taking all of our sins from us in her cup, which allows us to focus more on the good things. Thats just what I see from that.

Silverlotus	09 Jan 2004
What an extremely interesting thread. Kiama, your interpretation of these two cards together makes great sense me, as do your ideas about the Whore. I was really thinking about focusing on the Thoth deck, Crowley and Qabalah this year, and this thread has cemented my intentions. Thank you.

The The Whore With the Grail (Or, Strength and the Ace of Cups-Qabalistically Speaking) thread was originally posted on 04 Jan 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.