Readings with only MAJOR or MINOR arcana?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Feb 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

~TheWiSeFooL~	29 Feb 2004
When is it a good idea to only use the MAJOR ARCANA for wot type of QN in particular? Becos I did a reading where I asked 'Is this a ViRTuouS Woman?' ( I of course will not name them here, but just referred to as 'woman'!) (done with major arcana with no reversed meanings and a single card reading) doesn't that sort of limit wot cards could actually appear because there r only 22 cards in the major arcana THE DEVIL card appeared for 1 person (I hope this does not mean she is evil?!) a few were THE SUN 1 JUSTICE 1 STRENGTH which I definitely liked! Anyone please expand a little more on the above? yeah they r definitely virtuous women from wot is shown here?

Centaur	29 Feb 2004
Hi TheWiseFool, When I first started with tarot, I used to read with the Major and Minor arcana separately. I found that this was a good way to familiarise myself with the cards before moving on to combine both. I followed Juliet Sharman Burke's line of thought. As far as I understood, in one of her books (I can't remember which!) she proposed that one use Minors to gain an overview of the Querent's situation, and the Majors to gain a deeper insight into their psychology and inner-workings. For instance, she proposed that as part of a reading structure, one start with a Celtic Cross using minors only. This would provide a glimpse into the Querents life at the moment in terms of what was actually happening. Then, she proposed to move on to a Star spread using Majors only in order to enrich the Celtic Cross readings with a deeper insight into the querent's mind and feelings at present. And to finish it off, she proposed that one combined both Major and Minor arcana for a five-card Horseshoe reading in order to seek guidance for the querent. So I guess, according to Burke, Minor Arcana are particularly suited to situational questions, whilst Major Arcana might be particularly suited to psychological and inner-working related questions. Ofcourse, both Minor and Major Arcana can be used for situational AND psychological questions... but I guess she was just trying to keep it simple in that particular book. I found it to be rather a useful way of familiarising myself with the cards. Hope that helps. C

Diana	29 Feb 2004
Hi and welcome to the forums. :) I have difficulty reading your posts because of your unusual spelling (looks like SMS spelling - the kind one uses for saving space on mobile phone messages), but am curious enough to ask you one question: What on earth is a Virtuous Woman? What does this mean???? :confused: As to using only Majors in readings, you can do all readings with just Majors. You will get all the answers you need.

Imagemaker	29 Feb 2004
How the cards might "label" someone is more related to your projection of a label onto them, not the person's actual quality of Being. Whatever your definition of virtuous (I'm with Diana here, you need to define that), you might first use the Majors to describe your own qualities of virtue.

Thirteen	29 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ~TheWiSeFooL~ doesn't that sort of limit wot cards could actually appear because there r only 22 cards in the major arcana It depends on the spread. I use a past life spread that uses only the majors primarily because there's 22 cards in that particular spread--so you use all the majors--and get a stronger "storyline" for the past life. Quote: THE DEVIL card appeared for 1 person (I hope this does not mean she is evil?!) Not at all! If you go to the top of this particular forum, you'll see a "locked" section by Firemaiden labeled "What do the cards mean." This is an appendix of all sorts of discussion threads that have been on this forum on all the cards. I recommend you read through some of the threads on the devil--including two very recent ones: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=22765 and http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=13598 No cards in the tarot are that simple. All of them have a yin and a yang, pros and cons to teach the reader and querent. I think your question "Is this a virtuous woman" and the answer you got in the Devil card was more a remark to YOU--it's a devil of a question. You've chained yourself to a desire for "Virtue" as it were, which means if she falls short of your definition of "virtuous," you'll ignore all her other good qualities. You will, in short, rid yourself of perhaps the most wonderful people you could know, even the love of your life, because their past life, their way of living life, bothers you. That I think, is why you got the Devil. And there, I think, is where the evil lies. Not in this woman.

bonnycat	29 Feb 2004
When I first started learning tarot I used only the majors and have since progressed onto using the whole deck. One suggestion you could try is just using the court cards to see what type of person a individual is. I have read about this method (can't tell you where) but have not used it myself still feel it is worth a try. Remember however it could be your projection of who they are as has all ready been mentioned

HudsonGray	29 Feb 2004
The Devil is evil? LOL! Nope! It means your internal subconscious is governing things for a while, which can be a good thing, in many cases. Getting that card means to take a look at something inside, to find the reason it's there. Forget about the 'image' shown on the card for that one, it doesn't mean demons & devils. This card governs what's happening inside a person in their thinking, motivations for actions being done, or even instinct coming to the fore. The Devil isn't a bad card any more than the Sun is a good card. There's always a lot more to each archetype than straight black & white.

~TheWiSeFooL~	02 Mar 2004
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "What on earth is a Virtuous Woman? What does this mean???? " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well.....the dictionary definition of the word 'virtuous' is: "Having or showing virtue, especially moral excellence: led a virtuous life. Possessing or characterized by chastity; pure: a virtuous woman. See Synonyms at moral. " I mean it seems like a pretty straightforward question to me 'Is this woman a virtuous woman?' is pretty much self explanatory u can't really expand on it anymore..... I do understand that some people on this noticeboard maybe trying to b nice, or trying to diffuse the negative impact of anything that may look a little scary or offensive or immoral by pretending to sidestep the question or revealing the full meaning of the actual card thereby reducing the shock that may actually deter new users from ever using the tarot again.... Is very much appreciated but then again the truth is the truth - u use your intuition and u have to INTERPRET the CARD in RELATION to the CONTEXT of the situation or QUESTION (sorry I am not shouting I am just stressing out keywords, or placing more emphasis on them) there r indeed a few negative connotations to the card: negative associations with this tarot card: entrapment, lust, greed, ignorance, anger, tyranny, obsession there ARE POSITIVE things bout it don't get me wrong I just haven't mentioned them here The Devil is not all bad, if marriage or commitment to a relationship is under consideration and this card falls in a favourable position in a reading The Devil is a good omen regarding most other issues this card is not a very positive one. The Devil symbolizes lust of the flesh, temptation and addiction which don't tend to lead to favourable outcomes concerning relationships this card can warn against obsession or people that are no good for us and prompts you to to examine the situation carefully The Devil stands for a warning against the destructive consequnces of your actions motivated by greed, lust and power more positively, the Devil can be a sign that you are gaining control, or at least awareness, of your weaknesses or addictions so in the CONTEXT of the qn is she 'VIRTUOUS' well that does sorta kinda suggest something about her no of course it does not imply that she is literally a DEMONIC or DEVIL ENTITY NO of course not! SORRY no OFFENCE. :O ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ How the cards might "label" someone is more related to your projection of a label onto them, not the person's actual quality of Being. Whatever your definition of virtuous (I'm with Diana here, you need to define that), you might first use the Majors to describe your own qualities of virtue.I think your question "Is this a virtuous woman" and the answer you got in the Devil card was more a remark to YOU--it's a devil of a question. You've chained yourself to a desire for "Virtue" as it were, which means if she falls short of your definition of "virtuous," you'll ignore all her other good qualities. You will, in short, rid yourself of perhaps the most wonderful people you could know, even the love of your life, because their past life, their way of living life, bothers you. That I think, is why you got the Devil. And there, I think, is where the evil lies. Not in this woman. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ OK OK yep sure in response to the above In actual fact I do not PERSONALLY know this woman AND in fact I did do a reading about whether or not we could have a POSTIVE relationship and the OUTCOME turned out to b STRENGTH and THE LOVERS! :D :p Now please please please do not ASSUME things nowhere in my POST did I ever IMPLY that I JUDGED her or LABELLED her - in fact I am non judgemental..... so please do not JUDGE me for it like 'THIRTEEN' has done here....same goes with 'DIANA' and 'IMAGEMAKER' u have to start reading my POST properly. her way of living does not bother me at all hahahahah she is a celebrity dear oh dear. and no names. and I am not bout to tell u who I am either...sorry I know I have u all curious but sorry no. :O :p and besides this was not the only reading I did of 1 woman, in fact several readings of the same qn of different women and tatah nope not all of them turned out to b the devil card so wow what does that happen to tell u???(and SUN, JUSTICE, EMPRESS, STRENGTH, TEMPERANCE many of them very POSITIVE and VERY great!) probably a reflection of their souls progress + very admirable qualities. Anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts. :)

HudsonGray	02 Mar 2004
Well...you did say you hoped this didn't mean she was Evil, which to me seems like you took the card at face value due to the picture & title. Having knowledge of who she is, you still went for the base meaning & book terms. That's all we had to go on.

Imagemaker	02 Mar 2004
Consider the context and implication of your posting about a virtuous woman on this board. It's a simple truth that throughout history, women, especially those involved in tarot and mystical arts, have long been condemned and attacked by the general socity. And it's the society's conservative institution (often religions) who often judged women as "virtuous" enough to even be allowed to live, much less practice their free-spirited ways. Tarot readers have often been accused of devil worship and attacked, even today. So any such questions on this board about virtuous women and questioning whether they're evil are liable to elicit strong responses. Here, we women tarotists feel safe and allow no such judgments. Just to let you know . . .

MSPSYCHOMAGNET	02 Mar 2004
Here is a lovely deck, all major arcana, with an interesting book that interprets the major arcana from the perspective of interpersonal relationships. It may be something, giving what you seem to be interested in, that would speak to you: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0312082584/ref=nosim/aeclectic/

~TheWiSeFooL~	03 Mar 2004
to imagemaker: I am no expert, in fact I consider myself to b quite an amatuer (thats y I only do readings for myself so that it doesn't effect any1 else) or do I ever claim to b a guru in TAROT reading so I still have quite to learn which is y I decided to join up on this board - to get some hints + tips so I don't claim to know everything. yeah no absolutely I totally agree with u In fact I am quite the opposite if u say I would discriminate or against any female practitioners + would fully support the idea of seeing divine feminine spiritual power, as their aren't many women like JOAN of ARC (burnt as a witch and canonized as a saint 500 yrs later after her death) she is a heroine and legend in my eyes! the KUAN YIN GODDESS of MERCY and COMPASSION has a male and female manifestation.... my favourite goddess (and a wild crazy fan club at that) in the 8 taoist immortals is oddly enough the only odd 'man' out ok I can go on and on but we're getting off track a little here... Anyway suffice is it to say that the qn for my reading was not personally directed at any female tarot readers on this board it was simply asking is this particular woman 'virtuous'? which bring sme to the next qn If I were to ask any of the readers here if u had to pick a card that most closley resembles the definition of 'EVIL' or 'THE DEVIL' which card would u pick? Is this a rhetorical qn? what is my point here? its just simply saying that because the tarot has so many different meanings and so many different associations with each card and that it is able to answer almost any qn that u ask of it, hence which makes it an effective divination tool - it just therefore as a logical conclusion has to in all of the 78 cards, 1 of them has to have that as the meaning for it? right? or am I making a broad sweeping generalisation I am making here? for eg it reminded me of a real life event many many years ago when lightning hit the very highest point of the SYDNEY CENTREPOINT TOWER now what image or card does this immediately remind u of? ring any bells? even though it didn't crash and wasn't rebuilt or anything but still.... So basically I'm making the point that depending on your qn or situation there has to b LITERAL meanings to certain cards as well? another example might b COURT CARDS (KINGS and KNIGHTS? that actually represented a KING or a KNIGHT?) or THE MAGICIAN reversed plus THE DEVIL (might mean BLACK MAGICK???) it is so often that u r told about the symbolical meanings that when cards r actually trying to tell u literal meanings that it has escaped u or eluded u at the time even for prefessional tarot readers? possibly? even the one people LOATHE to speak of and would FEAR is the one card, I don't even have to mention it here, u all know what it is? I do understand that u cannot 'equate' the tarot to b either simply purely 'black' or 'white' or purely 'negative' or 'positive' but then again......there r definite 'yes' and 'no' answers to qns u ask eg the one I asked 'Is this a virtuous woman?' was a simple yes no answer qn as a 1 card reading as well (with only major arcana) Also theres 2 cards only THE WORLD and THE SUN that cannot have any NEGATIVE meaning to it! and the only 2 cards that do not have a REVERSED meaning! so for eg if u asked r u going to b successful in some sort of undertaking? and 1 of these appeared it definitely has to b a big YES!

HudsonGray	03 Mar 2004
The World & Sun can't have bad meanings? I disagree. You can get the World card & have it mean that you're so wrapped up in your own little world you can't see beyond it. With the Sun you can have a sun so intense you get sunburned, or get blinded to what's in front of you because the light is too intense. There are downsides to each card even the 'good ones' like these two. The Devil is about inner workings. You can rely on inner workings to help you quite a bit, this card isn't all negative & addictions. To see it that way all the time is to only go with the cliche meaning & miss out on all the nuances. An example of a good meaning with the Devil is 'trust your instincts', or an indication it's time to give yourself some pampering (hedonism), or to look inward for some reasons why you have your buttons pushed & are reacting with gut emotions for some reason. For evil I'd look to the swords--5 of swords can be one nasty bastard who gets things fair & square yet grinds his 'winning' into each and every person who had anything to do with his being better than they are now. Or the thief who takes the swords behind everyone's back & claims credit for what he's stolen. Or 2 of Swords reversed who has choices to make, yet makes the wrong one every time. The evil would be specific to certain things, not one general card covering everything. Hitler would probably have had a range of cards come up for him (if he didn't just get the Emperor card in a one card draw). (By the way, magic doesn't really have a color, it's the intent of the user who determines whether what they do is good or bad--I'm pagan).

Imagemaker	03 Mar 2004
Wise Fool, I'm curious as to why you say the World and the Sun don't have reversed meanings. (Though I'm not one to use books too much, Mary Greer's book on Tarot Reversals gives reversal meanings for both these cards.) As Hudson Gray says, the energy of any card can be expressed in a negative way.

HudsonGray	04 Mar 2004
Wisefool--we get a lot of international people on this board who have English as a second (or even third) language. That's why you see very little shorthand, abbreviated words or slang used here. It's almost impossible for some people to follow the internet shorthand if they haven't grown up with using it, so spelling out all the words will help what you're saying make sense to everyone.

The Readings with only MAJOR or MINOR arcana? thread was originally posted on 29 Feb 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.