Card reversals?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

closrapexa	14 Apr 2004
In the course of my studying I've come to the point of reversals. And I'm in a slump. How important are they? I don't have Mary Greer's book about reversals, but are they reall and truly important?

jmd	14 Apr 2004
There are numerous views on the subject, and some who claim to not need them at all. From my personal point of view, allowing reversals simply permits the cards to fall as they are, without thus restraining them to fall in only an upright position. Of course, for those who shuffle and handle the cards in ways which prevent reversals from occuring, they would, in their case, have to make a special effort to permit reversals. Let us take, as an example, a 'simple' pip card to illustrate the matter: let us take the three of Coins (an example - from a 1736 replica by Fournier - I attach for the sake of convenience). Here, seeing the three coins as an upward pointing equilateral triangular arrangement, with one of the coins within that heart-shape, is significantly different - yet also clearly related, to the same card reversed, and in which the 'heart-shape' is empty, and the coins seem to descend rather into the womb... 'Reversals' - or perhaps more appropriately 'INVERSALS' - thus seem to provide the imagination various and differing suggestions. With cards which have such depictions as a horseman or a seated woman, then of course the reversal provides yet other suggestions to the inspiritional faculty, and listening to those suggestive implications may provide for differing insights to prevention of reversals from arousing... ...but of course, views vary :)

Imagemaker	14 Apr 2004
Thirteen always says that the cards know a beginner from an expert reader. That sounds weird, but if you're alert to your intuition, you may find that you switch to reversals when you feel the cards are insistent on them. I didn't use them for a long time--shuffling freely but turning all cards upright in a spread. Then the day came when the inverted message came through so strongly that I knew I shouldn't fix the card. Reversals had arrived! That was when I went to read about them and stopped putting cards upright in spreads. It adds a whole new level of learning, which I like, but had to be ready for.

contrascarpe	14 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by jmd Of course, for those who shuffle and handle the cards in ways which prevent reversals from occuring, they would, in their case, have to make a special effort to permit reversals. I think this is my main issue with reversals. You almost have to force a reversal unless the deck is already re-ordered (and then I feel the reversal was caused by someone prior and still does not validate it). The average person you are going to read for is not going to think about reversing the cards and to suggest to them that they should shuffle this way feels like I am forcing the reading. When I am reading, I often use what is considered to be a reversal meaning - it depends on what I feel the card is saying to me and how it arrives in the spread. I have both Mary Greer's and Joan Bunning's books on reversals and thumb through them from time to time but for now, I use them to gain additional insight in the card itself. For years I struggled with this concept - since so many read with reversals, perhaps I must also. I don't feel that way anymore. Now, if a card were to pop up in reversed form, I may pay closer attention to it.

Emiac	14 Apr 2004
I've used reversals ever since the day I've been studying the tarot. The thing is, it's not even that hard to remember most of the meanings & they can give you round abouts 78 extra ways of interpretating. And all this stuff about getting reversals on purpose is kind of weird, because it all really depends on how you shuffle your cards inint? Some poeple poker-shuffle it (the worst method), I kind of spread them out over a surface and give them a big fat jumble. Also, if you keep them upwards all the time, it'll be a type of bias anyway 'coz most of the meanings then are usually more positve or strong.

smleite	15 Apr 2004
I never do reversals, still sometimes there they are. I believe they will appear if necessary. I got 2 reversals yesterday, both in the same position, in the same game, one came to help clarifying the meaning of the other. Since my intention is always to put every card upright before shuffling (which doesn’t mean I did it, obviously I wasn’t as careful as I thought – for some reason), I tend to treat these hazardous reversals with great respect.

Emiac	15 Apr 2004
But say like, you get a card the normal way up. If ALL meanings are to be considered, there'll be so may possiblities, you'll just end up confused wouldn't you? Would you also have to confuse the client by telling them every single possibility? But if the card is reversed, it'll tell you specifically, if there's more or less negative elements. In theory, negative cards only turn up when needed, just like when you shuffle the cards normally, you only get the ones that are relevant- right? So why hate reversals? The extra wisdom is there, wouldn't it be restricting if it weren't used?

contrascarpe	15 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Emiac And all this stuff about getting reversals on purpose is kind of weird, because it all really depends on how you shuffle your cards inint? Some poeple poker-shuffle it (the worst method), I kind of spread them out over a surface and give them a big fat jumble. The "average" querent would "poker shuffle" the cards. Which was pretty much the point I was trying to make. The chances of reversals in such a case will be minimal.

contrascarpe	15 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Emiac But say like, you get a card the normal way up. If ALL meanings are to be considered, there'll be so may possiblities, you'll just end up confused wouldn't you? Would you also have to confuse the client by telling them every single possibility? But if the card is reversed, it'll tell you specifically, if there's more or less negative elements. In theory, negative cards only turn up when needed, just like when you shuffle the cards normally, you only get the ones that are relevant- right? So why hate reversals? The extra wisdom is there, wouldn't it be restricting if it weren't used? Again, a reversed card does not necessarily mean negative elements. Typically they mean "lessened effects" IMO. And speaking for myself, I will not give all meanings. I will CONSIDER all meanings or go with whatever my intuition pushes most strongly for me. More times than not, I will consider the impact of this card in relation to the other cards surrounding it. Reversals can be important, but currently they are not important to me - for me, they are always there in my mind whichever direction the card turns up.

ros	15 Apr 2004
I pull extra cards for reversals OR read them as blocked energy OR some are just reversed for me. I just do the reading & think about what I'm going to do with the reverse at the time. I don't find them necessary only when you want to extra information. Many reversals could be warnings, as you have been warned in a this reading to take notice of what's going on in your life. I'm not sure of reversal just because of the shuffling. If you have all your cards in order, shuffle & pull the cards in a certain way then of course they will be all the right way. One more point. Sometimes when I get stuck if a wand is reversed I'll think of it as the same number in the swords. If the cups are reversed then the same number in coins, to unblock the reverse effect. 2 swords reversed think 2 wands 3 coins reversed think 3 cups to break the block. I read this somewhere on here & use this method sometimes.

Nevada	15 Apr 2004
I usually read reversals, except with decks such as Thoth, which isn't designed for them. BUT the most important thing, IMO, is to read the whole card. Read the positive and negative aspects of it and let your intuition tell you which is predominant in this reading. Sometimes the reversal is important, and your intuition will tell you this. Other times, it's not. When a reversal comes up I usually turn it around, read it upright, then flip it back around and read it reversed, try to get a feel for all perspectives. Also, as Diana mentions, I look at its placement among the other cards and how it interacts with them. Nevada

hedgecub	15 Apr 2004
Each Tarot card has a meaning that can be seen from both a positive angle and a negative angle, just as any aspect of life has its pros and cons. If you read with reversals, then you can physically see whether it's the positive or negative aspect of the meaning that is most important to a reading. However, as Diana said, you don't need to use reversals to get both sides of the meaning. Looking at the surrounding cards and listening to your intuition will indicate whether a card should be looked at from the positive or negative angle, regardless of which way up it is. *drops in her 0.02 and hopes it's not too silly an idea*

Imagemaker	15 Apr 2004
Similar to what Ros posted about thinking of other suits, sometimes I think of the element of the suit: reversed Swords--how is air blocked? reversed Wands--how is fire blocked? Etc. It helps me think beyond the image and number of the card and its "shadow."

ncefafn	15 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by hedgecub Each Tarot card has a meaning that can be seen from both a positive angle and a negative angle I agree with you, Cub. There are no good and bad cards; there are just cards. Context is everything. My .01. (The IRS took the other one.) Kim

jmd	15 Apr 2004
(What's the 'IRS'? the Irish Republican Society?) With regards to getting reversals when a deck is handed over to someone for shuffling, I make sure the deck is already well shuffled. As the method I use reverses about 50% of the cards (from whatever current orientations they happen to be), it is likely that many will remain reversed irrepective of their shuffling method... As to whether there are no 'good or bad cards', I tend to agree - though with some qualifications, if any inavertently combine 'good' and 'bad' (moral terms) with 'constructive'/'loose'/'positive' and 'destructive'/'bound'/'negative' (amoral terms often used metaphorically for moral ones). If I wish to remodel the inside of my house, then I will need to destroy some existing walls. Destruction, in that sense, may indeed be a positive. Likewise, binding may, under some circumstances, provide for a loosening of growth (as when vines are attached or bound inn order to encourage growth in particular ways which may increase grape yield). Generally, then, some cards do tend to have move destructive or negative implications or meaning, which also needs recognition (which I also realise people here do recognise this, by the way). Again just with regards to allowing reversals, I would personally find it very difficult to avoid them, as the shuffling methods I tend to use inserts the cards 'head-to-head'... ...on the other hand, I probably developed the methods partly out of an acceptance and preference for allowing reversals to emerge, rather than preventing the same.

Macavity	15 Apr 2004
Another novel idea (by PHB) is to use reversals to "associate" (particularly the court) cards in a reading. That way (much as in real life?) when in close proximity, folk can either interact strongly or even totally ignore one another! Such ideas can also be used as an adjunct (not exclusive alternative) to other systems like elemental dignities... :) Macavity

contrascarpe	15 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by jmd [bwith regards to getting reversals when a deck is handed over to someone for shuffling, i make sure the deck is [i] already [/i] well shuffled. [/b] Well the anal part of me always uprights the cards after I am done, lol.

mj07	16 Apr 2004
I've used reversals from the start of my experiece with tarot. I know some far more experienced tarot-ists here discouraged me from doing so as a beginner, since I'd already been doing it I figured I might as well just continue on. I find that sometimes the reversals call attention to themselves, either by the fact there's only one in a spread, or all of them are reversed. In most tarot spreads I look for patterns, whether it be numbers, suits, majors, minors or reversals. DOes that make sense? I keep thinking I might be doing something "wrong" but then figure, IS there a "wrong" way?

contrascarpe	16 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by mj07 I've used reversals from the start of my experiece with tarot. I know some far more experienced tarot-ists here discouraged me from doing so as a beginner, since I'd already been doing it I figured I might as well just continue on. I find that sometimes the reversals call attention to themselves, either by the fact there's only one in a spread, or all of them are reversed. In most tarot spreads I look for patterns, whether it be numbers, suits, majors, minors or reversals. DOes that make sense? I keep thinking I might be doing something "wrong" but then figure, IS there a "wrong" way? mj07 - Of course there is no wrong way! Keep doing what you are doing and listen to your heart. I used reversals early on myself. I only "let go" of the practice once I started reading intuitively. I also look for patterns in my spread and typically work those patterns into my reading. Many times when an experienced reader discourages reversals to someone starting out, it is because it can be overwhelming to someone, especially if they are trying to learn meanings as outlined in books. Someone new (and we've all been there) is usually so gung-ho to learn ALL the cards that they can't wait to master them. By introducing added pressure to learn the reversals at the same time can lead to frustration and in many cases cause that person to give up on Tarot. If you feel comfortable with reversals and believe in them, keep that going. I know a reader in our local Circle who is really good with reversals. Dan

laura_borealis	16 Apr 2004
All this has made me wonder about the history of reversals. Is there evidence that reversals were used in the earliest known days of tarot? At what point do we know for sure that reversals were being used? Not that this would necessarily have any bearing on how people use tarot and reversals, now. I'm just curious. I don't use reversals, myself, though I don't rule them out for the future when I'm more adept with reading.

contrascarpe	16 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by laura_borealis All this has made me wonder about the history of reversals. Is there evidence that reversals were used in the earliest known days of tarot? At what point do we know for sure that reversals were being used? Not that this would necessarily have any bearing on how people use tarot and reversals, now. I'm just curious. I don't use reversals, myself, though I don't rule them out for the future when I'm more adept with reading. I have a theory that reversals were started at the request of the guy who modelled for the Hanged Man ...... he was tired of seeing himself upside down.

laura_borealis	16 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 I have a theory that reversals were started at the request of the guy who modelled for the Hanged Man ...... he was tired of seeing himself upside down. *heehee* :D

baba-prague	16 Apr 2004
Waite gives meanings for reversals in the Pictorial Key so it's been there in the RWS system since the beginning. I really like/need to use reversals - can't imagine reading without. But I also get surprised by people assuming reversals are "bad" or negative. Not at all I'd say. I've seen readings where the reversed cards were the light at the end of the tunnel. I've finally had the courage to put reversed meanings (just as keywords) into the new companion book. I just felt it was time. I found actually writing down reversed meanings a real eye-opener - so it was a great exercise for me - hope it turns out to be useful too!

_N_	18 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana All the meanings of the card are in it whether it is reversed or not. One cannot separate the reversed "meanings" from the non-reversed "meanings" - they are all there - and all must be kept in mind. Being new to the forum, I've been slowly reading through the posts. This one grabbed me because it is something that I have always had "issues" with. I must say that you, Diana, hit the nail on the head about my own feelings on the subject of reversals. To me, you need to know all of the traditional meanings associated with each card, upright and reversed, because they are all possibilities. But then you MUST rely on your own intuition to tell you which of those meanings (if any of them ;) ) is the one that is coming through in the reading. I just don't like reversed cards - I want to be able to see the card, study it, get the intuition flowing and for me, if the card is reversed, it just seems to add a measure of confusion and disorientation - sort of like Tarot dyslexia :D For those who can use reversals, to whom reversals speak, all the more power to you, as each of us must use our own natural intuition and psychic ablitities in the way that works best for us. For me, that means not using reversals. N

Diana	18 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by _N_ For those who can use reversals, to whom reversals speak, all the more power to you, as each of us must use our own natural intuition and psychic ablitities in the way that works best for us. For me, that means not using reversals. N Hi _N_! Actually, you do use reversals (so do I). Only we don't turn our cards upsidedown to see them or interpret them. We use reversed "meanings" (whatever meaning means) with upright cards. And upright meanings also with upright cards. Am I right or am I reversed?

_N_	18 Apr 2004
You are right - we do use reversed - we just don't reverse them... ...ooohh, that one hurt my wittle head :D N

lunakasha	18 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by _N_ You are right - we do use reversed - we just don't reverse them... ...ooohh, that one hurt my wittle head :D N Hehehehe....too funny _N_!!! I am in agreement with you and Diana on this one......I think??? :eek: LOL :) Luna

raeanne	19 Apr 2004
Hi all, A long time ago someone on AT (I think it was Nexy Jo) said that each card had "360 degrees of meaning". I like that phrase! It's a full circle of meanings. If you have ever used round cards, you can really see the subtle differences. Personally, I think that once you understand the full circle of meanings each card has, whether you use physical reversals or not isn't important. For beginners I think it is easier to learn reversals by actually, physically reversing the cards and then moving on to relying on intuition to tell you when a card should be read as upright or reversed.

contrascarpe	19 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by raeanne Hi all, A long time ago someone on AT (I think it was Nexy Jo) said that each card had "360 degrees of meaning". I like that phrase! It's a full circle of meanings. If you have ever used round cards, you can really see the subtle differences. Personally, I think that once you understand the full circle of meanings each card has, whether you use physical reversals or not isn't important. For beginners I think it is easier to learn reversals by actually, physically reversing the cards and then moving on to relying on intuition to tell you when a card should be read as upright or reversed. Raeanne - thank you for sharing that. That sums up perfectly how I feel and have been trying to convey. I like the concept of 360 degrees ...... I have yet, however, to embrace any of the round card decks out there. I guess I have this inherent fear that someone would mistake one of the cards for a coaster and use it to park their beverage on. Dan

lunakasha	19 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 I guess I have this inherent fear that someone would mistake one of the cards for a coaster and use it to park their beverage on. LMAO Dan.....what a frightening :eek: image!!! }) :D Luna

druid	21 Apr 2004
With question like this, I usually ask my deck. I didn't use reversals the first few days I did tarot, cause like some of you believe, the potential good and bad meanings are inherent in every card. And then I went to a short tarot class session, and the instructor used reversals. So I asked my deck the other day whether I should use it and I got the wheel of fortune reversed. To me, it's telling me to open to all possibilities. The wheel of fortune itself is about rotation, change of perspectives. After that, I shuffled cards differently (spread them out and mix them in one-way circular motion) which makes reversed cards more likely to appear. Now when I get a reversed card, I will still put it upright so that I can read it more easily but I will take into account that it comes out reversed when it is first revealed. In a way, I pay special attention to it.

The Card reversals? thread was originally posted on 14 Apr 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.