Nasty 10s - am I the only one?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

ncefafn	21 Apr 2004
I'm going to come out of the closet and say it: I hate 10s. I have never liked that damn Wheel of Fortune. I never trusted it. What goes up always comes down, and if you got fat on the way up, it sure looks to me like you're gonna get ground under that wheel when you're at rock bottom. And the whole idea of being "on the wheel," trapped on the wheel of karma and desire, instead of getting off it and just living your life. Who wants to be on a stupid merry-go-round their whole life? And don't get me started about those smarmy 10 of Cups and 10 of Pents. Nothing that looks that wonderful can be any good at all. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark, or wherever it is those shiny, happy people live. 10 of Wands, now, that's a little better. Life is hard, lots of burdens, but still, the poor guy's suffering, and for what? When's it gonna end? When's he gonna figure out all he has to do is dump that pile of sticks and walk upright like a human being again? But when I see the 10 of Swords, I'm a happy girl. That's more like it. Finally, the nightmare is over, all the bad stuff has happened, and you can let go. When I see this card in a reading, I let out a sigh of relief. So, am I the only one with this weird world view? Is there anyone else out there who absolutely hates the 10s? Kim

ros	21 Apr 2004
I've never thought about 10s in that way before. I really don't mind them because I feel that if they are good or bad a change of a situation is coming. Sorry but your post made me laugh!

Astraea	21 Apr 2004
I don't hate the 10s, but there is a lot of merit in what you say. Deflation follows fullness and satiety, no matter how pleasant something might feel in the moment (in the case of Cups and Pentacles), or how challenging (Swords and Wands). That is an important aspect of the realism inherent in the 10s -- a built-in reversal, if you will.

Imagemaker	21 Apr 2004
Great stuff, ncefafn--you could definitely develop a good standup routine on tarot--it's never been done before! Saturday Night Live--the Tarot World!

Esther	22 Apr 2004
I've never seen the Wheel of Fortune card in that way, so it's interesting to think about. I've always been optimistic, like 'well, even when things get bad, they'll get better again!'. I usually get the Wheel of Fortune reversed in my readings though, so it's like there's no where to go but up or something.... And I agree, you could create a stand-up routine on Tarot. I liked your post.

jog1118	22 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ncefafn Who wants to be on a stupid merry-go-round their whole life? ...i dont want to either, but let's face it...that's reality, everyone has their share of ups and down - for me this reality is wonderfully represented by the wheel of fortune...we must not hate it but look at it straight in the eye and tell ourselves that we can overcome whatever this life may throw at us...sorry for sounding too "preachy"... :smoker:

Inana	22 Apr 2004
The Wheel of Fortune is a tough card. But I don’t think its all about karma or one has to feel trapped. There are good older posts about the wheel if you wish to find other meanings for it. Tens are about ending cycles, coming to a final stage. They share a lot with the aces. The tens posses all the energy of the suit in form of past experiences you have learned and are carrying in your back. The aces also contain all the energy of the suit but in a potential and wild form. When you get a ten, usually is time to stop and make use of that experience to start looking at things with new light. Is not about throwing all those wands on the ground, but choosing which ones you want to keep, which ones you are passing to the others and which ones are not worth anymore. Same applies for the other suits. All the cards have lights and shadows. You like the ten of swords because you see it as meaning all the bad stuff is ending... the happiness in the ten of cups also will fade away. Everything that starts will end. And these are the cycles the wheel is referring to.

Diana	22 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ncefafn I have never liked that damn Wheel of Fortune. I never trusted it. What goes up always comes down, and if you got fat on the way up, it sure looks to me like you're gonna get ground under that wheel when you're at rock bottom. And the whole idea of being "on the wheel," trapped on the wheel of karma and desire, instead of getting off it and just living your life. Who wants to be on a stupid merry-go-round their whole life? If you don't like being on it.... then step off it. It's as simple as that. If you step off it when it's moving fast, you risk a bump on your head, that's all. If you step off it when it's moving slowly, you can just gently jump off it and walk away. If you feel like staying on it and seeing where destiny is taking you, then stay on it - it can be most satisfying just to let go and wait and see. You can also climb to the top of it and take the place of the creature at the top. But that gets a bit boring after a while. But try it - it is an interesting experience. We always have the choice. Always. As to the other 10s... you are referring to the RWS pictures. They are not the only 10s that exist in the Tarot. Those pictures have caused a lot of misconceptions about the 10s. Such a pity. (Understatement) 10 is an absolutely wonderful, powerful number. Don't waste it. Use it to create a new choreography.

laura_borealis	22 Apr 2004
I felt ambivalent about the Wheel of Fortune until one day recently, when I realized it resembles the Wheel that represents the Eight-fold Path * in Buddhism. That gave the Wheel of Fortune a whole new shade of meaning for me (though I'm sure it wasn't meant originally in the Tarot system of symbology). * that image shows the Eight-Fold Path symbol as a flower, but usually it's depicted as an actual Wheel.

Osher	22 Apr 2004
I quite the 10's... As they lead on to better things, namely the Ace's. It's the nine's that get it for me. I don't know if anyone here remembers that seminal and still wonderful film of the 80's 'Ferris Beuller's Day Off'? John Hughes, in his commentry explained why he used the number nine (for the days off school): It is an ugly sound (or something similiar to that, I'm working off memory chips here folks). Anyway, the point is, the nine is the point before the end, the middle of the night. The ten is the darkness before the dawn. Even for the Penticles and Cauldrons, they are before their Ace's. So, I quite the 10s...

smleite	22 Apr 2004
Ncefafn, The Wheel of Fortune makes me a little uncomfortable, either, and I haven’t yet learned how to deal with the ten of swords, the ten of cups and the ten of pentacles; but I enjoy the ten of wands a lot… I think this card is great to point out a way in our lives. The question is that I use a Marseille deck, so maybe our experiences with the cards are not exactly the same. But I think that what makes us uncomfortable with tens is the fact that people do not like, subconsciously at least, to face change and unpredictability. If number ten is related to change – ends and new beginnings – it is but natural that you tend to doubt the “land of promises” in the ten of cups and the ten of pentacles. Still, I believe they are “true” in themselves and probably represent the right answer in that right moment, we just have to be aware that the main characteristic of life is exactly changeability! Anyway, I also like to think that they have a very special place among other cards. The Wheel of Fortune looks like a representation of Tarot itself, the “wheel” of the word ROTA, as you know… because Tarot is, in a certain level, a mirror of material and human life. In another level, it seems to me, Tarot is a path trough AND OUT of that same material and human life, and this aspect is again perfectly depicted in The Wheel of Fortune. Like Diana, I would also say “jump off it”, but maybe in a different (?) direction: find the middle point, the immovable point in the centre of the wheel… call it God, or whatever you feel like. That possibility is another lesson of number ten, no? Cards numbered ten have in itself the indication of a new viewpoint: the centre of the wheel in card X is also marked by the roman number, since every cross signs its own centre! When I look at the ten of cups, I am obviously attracted by the upper cup, and it sounds like the way off Icaro’s labyrinth: not left, not right, but, hey, have you already considered looking up? From the centre of the strongly reinforced cross in the ten of wands, I see a different coloured path distinctly formed (already forming in card 9); it’s time to start something new, a new project whose basis were probably set by our former work. This might be a very personal approach, but it’s what I have to offer…

ncefafn	22 Apr 2004
Hmm . . . thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses. As I mentioned on the learning and sharing thread that Laura_Borealis started, reading other people's views on the cards deepens my own understanding. You've given me new things to consider when I look at the 10s now. And I like the view of the Wheel of Fortune as spokes of the Eight-fold Path. Through following that path, you can be on the wheel but not blinded by its maya. And it's funny, Hap, I never made that association with the 9s. I've always quite liked them, even the kinda hard ones. Kim

skytwig	22 Apr 2004
Sounds like surviving, rather than thriving...... Some of us had nasty starts to this life, where we were pushed around and haunted by harmful beings. We ended up learning to survive. We end up as adults who expect misery. We feel like victims, expecting tragedy, no matter what...... There comes a point, as Diana pointed out, where we have a choice ... a choice to step out of that mindset and learn how to live in Joy. It is tough work, it is not easy; but if we use the same kind of energy that helped us survive, we can gain a splendid view of life! We can learn to Trust it! :) (I speak as a Survivor who is learning to Thrive.)

Osher	22 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ncefafn Hmm . . . it's funny, Hap, I never made that association with the 9s. I've always quite liked them, even the kinda hard ones. Kim Weird, that's similiar to what was said about my understanding of the 5's. I can't be the only one to see cards in this manner?

laura_borealis	22 Apr 2004
This is on a less introspective level, but... I just remembered another interpretation of the Wheel that related it to the Wheel of the Year -- the seasons and pagan holidays such as Beltane, Samhain, Yule, etc. This could bring a rough timeline into a reading, depending on the question and position in a spread, according to this view. Can't remember where I read this.

Star Spirit	22 Apr 2004
I don't hate any number :) I'm in a Wheel of Fortune year right now, and I am LOVING it. My life is finally moving and going in the direction I want it to! I think the 10s are represented by natural changes and cycles, things that we all go through and can't escape. Maybe you just don't like endings and change ;)

Gardener	23 Apr 2004
Hey ncefafn, great post! Funny and insightful. I've been wondering why the 10 of cups and 10 of pentacles always made me so nervous! And though I used to have the same thought about the Wheel that you described - why does it ALWAYS have to change - I got a lovely eyeopener from firemaiden when she translated the Margarete Petersen tarot for us all last year. Here is the entry for the Wheel of Life: Circling, no stopping, no beginning, no end. Circling you cannot escape Circling - holding tight in happiness holding tight in sorrow. Meandering in the circle's magnetic field - Round and around you run, amazed again that nothing is resolved. The thawing out of blind Love brings sight. Subtle adjustments of the orbit. In the Flow/River you will find your answer. A wacky poem, but a wonderful one. There is a discussion drawing out some of the more obscure parts in the Petersen forum. (Sorry, don't know how to do links yet.) But the gist was that by stilling yourself, you can move away from the hectic edges towards the more stable center, and that was something I could aspire to! Thanks for starting this thread.

TemperanceAngel	24 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana As to the other 10s... you are referring to the RWS pictures. They are not the only 10s that exist in the Tarot. Those pictures have caused a lot of misconceptions about the 10s. Such a pity. (Understatement) 10 is an absolutely wonderful, powerful number. Don't waste it. Use it to create a new choreography. I agree with Diana about the RWS tens, but that's if you are only purely working with the imagery, and for me, Tarot is a system that works with imagery, but many other things as well. Eg: Suits, Numerology. When using using RWS I wouldn't just look at the Ten of Swords and completely work from that black image, I would also work with the suit and number, amongst other things. It makes a difference to what you are saying. Personally I love Tens, they break down to one. I am a One and my personality card is the Wheel of Fortune and the soul card, The Magician. Life is a cyclic thing and Tens and Ones will always be hanging around in our spreads to reflect this. XTAX

zoso	24 Apr 2004
I like 10's, they feel like completion. But, I really wanted to say to Diana and jog1118, that their signatures made me laugh!!

WalesWoman	25 Apr 2004
Well, it's nice to know I'm not the only one waiting for the other shoe to drop when these cards come up. I'm never quite sure if it means you just came to the end and have to start all over or you made it to the finish line and now you can relax. Maybe it's just a personal thing, trusting something good can last without being snatched away by fate just because you are finally feeling good about everything. I'm one of those people who, if I had an umbrella, would carry it with me, on a sunny day or maybe even a hard hat for falling cosmic debris. When the wheel comes up, it really makes me wonder, which way is up or down and where am I on it? I figure if the card is upright, things ought to get better, but if I'm not using reversals, I have no idea at all.

The Nasty 10s - am I the only one? thread was originally posted on 21 Apr 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.