Symbolizing: The Magician!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Thirteen	25 Apr 2004
I'm starting up a set of threads (3 per week) to examine the symbolism in the Majors. Nothing so formal or deep as to be called a "study group," but rather what you like and what you don't. What you feel ought to be there...or not. For this thread, the Magician! Just answer one or more of the following: 1) What elements from any Magician card from any deck do you feel BEST symbolize the Magician? (Example: "I've always loved that infinity sign over his head....") 2) What elements common to most Magician cards in most decks do you really feel are all WRONG for the Magician? (Example: "I've NEVER liked that infinity sign...!") 3) What symbol have you always felt was right for the Magician Card, but you've yet to see it? (Example: "I'd love to see a mobius strip displayed on the card...."). You don't have to answer all the above, but do offer some "why's?" as to what you answer. Why don't you/do you like that infinity sign? What does it mean that feels/doesn't feel like the Magician to you?

closrapexa	26 Apr 2004
In the Thoth, he is depicted as creative power at work, and beneath him is a shaft of light which gives alot of credibility to this claim. I've never really cared for the RWS magician, since he seems, well, I dunno. Just not my cup of tea. He seems more like a performer than a great mage.

Suriel	26 Apr 2004
my opinion is: 1)the cup of water is the best symbol for the magician card, i think. it is because i think that water is something that is needed to form life, to create. 2)i think that the pentacles(or coins) in the magician card is not good for a symbol. this is because i think that it is not so neccesey for a creation to be done..... 3)i think that a piece of mirror might suit in this card. this is because...mm...it is just my opinion...i think that a magician should be curious, peeping towards his creation through the mirror.....:)

ncefafn	26 Apr 2004
I've never really cared for the Magician in any RWS clone. It's too busy. This magician is supposed to be concentrating in order to turn his will into reality. How can he concentrate with all that clutter around him? The Magician in the Roots of Asia Tarot shows the four suit symbols, but rather than being tools the Magician has to use or lay on the altar, they flow out from the well of his hands. He has manifested the elements themselves. It is a breathtakingly beautiful deck. Kim

Lady Mary	26 Apr 2004
I especially like the number ONE. And I also like that he has everything at his disposition, means the Cup, the Sword, the Coin, the Wand.

jmd	30 Apr 2004
1) What elements BEST symbolise this card? A youngish man standing; holding a wand in his left hand; his right arm continuing the lemniscating shape of the left; in front of whom is a table; of which precisely three legs show.

Jenny-Li	04 May 2004
Great idea for threads - to think "backwards" on symbolism is interesting and demands that one really gives some thought to what the card stands for! For me the connection between the Fool and the Magician is a great symbol, how the Fool has the tools in his bag but doesn't reveal them (as in he doesn't know what to do with them) - while the Magician not only knows how, he TOYS with them, shows off...! I saw someone here saying one rendering of the Magician is more of an entertainer than a great magician - but to me he is both, and that is part of what he is. It reminds me of Gandalf and his fireworks at Bilbo Baggins' birthday party - his loving to have a good old time and earn the ooin and aaing of people around him doesn't make him any less of a magician. So I like the "juggler"-concept of the Magician. I don't think I can think of a more specific, tangible symbol... What I don't "like" or can't relate to is then naturally more pompous conceptualisations of the Magician. I see him with a glimpse in his eye, a bit of the fool that has remained through the Magician's evolvement into the mighty magus that he is now... jmd - what's with the precisely 3 legs of the table? I probably should know, but... //Jenny :)

jmd	04 May 2004
I didn't mention any of the 'whys', though this is undoubtdly the more important part of the question, as I hesitated as I did not want this thread to become a discussion as to why I basically described part of the important elements of the card as found in a Marseille pattern. With specific regards to the three legs, I made some mention and discussed this in the thread titled 'Comparative Study:1 - The Magician'. Personally, I suppose that my main reasons for my preferences are a reflection as to what constitutes central elements in the Marseille deck. I suppose I do not begin, in these reflections, with 'What would I like to see', but rather with 'What are some central and core elements?', and from the answer to that question, begin to investigate why they may be there. Jenny-Li's description of the playfulness and 'toying' with what is at hand is also so much, to me at least, an important element in one of the interpretative exegesis of this card... thankyou!

Chronata	05 May 2004
I love the Magician. It is one of my favorite cards. And I love the idea behind this thread as well, as it helps me define some things as I work on creating my own deck. It's funny, I think because I love this card so much...this has been the hardest one for me to recreate. I love him as the Bateleur just as much...if not more than..his role as the Magician. I used to think the figure had to be a man...but ever since the Buckland Romani deck...I have changed my narrow view of this. *The best symbols...a figure with one arm raised towards the heavens, and the other pointed towards earth, before a table full of items. And I've always liked cards that show the magician with a smirking sort of expression. As he has a sort of trickster/prankster attitude...but is still wise and powerful at the same time. *Symbols I don't particulary care about...I like the idea of the infinity...but I suppose it's not necessary to have two symbols that say the smae thing...the obourous and the infinity. One is probably sufficiant. * I'm not sure what I would like to see that I don't already. When I drew my very first tarot deck (based on titles only...before I ever saw the images) I depicted the juggler/magician as having 4 arms. I have seen a couple of other decks that have this symbolism...and I always laugh in recognition ! It just always has made sense to me.

Vincent	12 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Chronata I love the Magician. It is one of my favorite cards. *Symbols I don't particulary care about...I like the idea of the infinity...but I suppose it's not necessary to have two symbols that say the smae thing...the obourous and the infinity. One is probably sufficiant. If you are talking about the Rider-Waite deck, these two symbols do not mean the same thing at all. Vincent

tmgrl2	19 May 2004
Finally, got this done and sent home to upload...going to try to discipline myself and do this...hope it's ok I'm using the two decks, since I am trying to study them both...: Symbolizing the Magician: Since I am learning both the RW and the TdMarseille….I looked at the Radiant RW and the Camoin-Jodo TdMarseille. I know you said “any” deck…..but I’m finding it helpful to look at both at the same time. #1.In the RW I like best the element of the raised right hand with the Magician’s own “personal” wand almost as a lightening rod, channeling energy from the cosmos down through his left hand and out the index finger pointed toward the earth…this always represents to me the channeling of what is available in the universe down to the earth. Of course, as necessary, I like seeing the four elements on the table. On the Camoin-Jodo TdM, I like that the right hand is touching the yellow circle…don’t know why but this always strikes me as though Le Bateleur is “dialing in the universe….beam it down Scotty…” I don’t know the deck, but on another one I have seen it looks like a large button on his clothes. Here is looks more like an object separate from his clothes. I also like the traditional three legs of the table. I’m going to revisit jmd’s link in Comparative Study on the legs….And I also like the two legs of Le Bateleur facing outward FIRMLY planted on the earth. I like the floppy hat that to me “suggests” infinite possibility but still keeps him in the earthly domain. #2. RRW: Can’t see all three legs. Don’t like that Don’t like the infinity symbol above head almost like a halo…gives the Magician too much of a religious feel for me…I like the more human suggestion of Le Bateleur which allows for a wide range of roles…including Jongleur…maybe even trickster, someone who thinks they have everything to offer you but really isn’t necessarily all that wise. Camoin-Jodo: There’s a purse-like object on the left-corner of the table…it has a red fuzzy thing on the bottom…don’t know what it is or means…probably why it bothers me. #3. I don’t know enough decks to comment on any symbol I think might be right for the Magician, but isn’t there. I find the ones I use have what I need right now. terri

Niomi	19 May 2004
The Magician... I disagree with most people about him. Most see a preforming aspect of him, that man that will pull a rabbit out of a hat or saw a beautiful woman in half. I don't see him that way. I see him as a creator. (Ptah) He's manipulative, and prefers working behind the scenes, out of view. He's startling to discover-- just when you think you have things figured out, you discover the magician, the puppeteer, a silent creator. He challenges you, makes you question your perception. And of course, who is really in control... I always liked the idea of the magician being a single pair of bright, intelligent eyes. Around that brilliant pair of sparkling are the symbols of earth, air, fire and water-- the creative energies that go into making everything. I also like the image of the magician being the master puppeteer. I usually relate people and characters to my cards and the magician draws parallels to Billy Flynn (from the recent musical, Chicago)

raeanne	20 May 2004
Hi all, To me the Magician is about learning that we can create things in our lives. The Fool doesn’t make anything happen. He just walks along bumping into things all the time. The Fool doesn’t take charge of his life but is constantly reacting to the forces around him. The Magician finally realizes that he can use the tools he has been given to make things happen in his life. He can tap into the infinite source of energy and direct it wherever he wants to make thing grow. No longer does he just move through each day letting the winds of life blow him hither and yon. He has learned how to ground himself and direct the energy around him. I think that is magic!

The Symbolizing: The Magician! thread was originally posted on 25 Apr 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.