Death

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

closrapexa	05 May 2004
I see that I'm beginning to have a problem with this card. When I see it, I think of renewal, of, yes, and end to what was, but maybe it should have been called Life? Now, obviously its all in the interpretation, but does anyone else see Death as the exact opposite of what the card "says". And has anyone been in the unfortunate position where Death has meant what a death? I started having this issue after pondering Thoth's Death, which is so vibrant that it really doesn't have any Death in it, to me at least. Only new life.

Inana	05 May 2004
Hi Closrapexa! Life and Death are two sides of the same experience of existence, both needed, but not the same thing. We live in a society who despises death and closes its eyes to it. We know everyone is going to die, but we prefer to ignore it and avoid it. Our modern world has chosen an aseptic way to face death. On ancient times death was more integrated into daily life, people was more conscious about his meaning and the transitoriety (is this the word?) of things, so psychologically more prepared to accept it. On medieval times they played the “dances of death” among Europe, it was included in religious rituals. In Spain we have a location where it is still done nowadays, i saw it two years ago. There are some pics on this link, where you can see some similarities on the imaginery with the Death card: http://www.firesifestes.com/Fires/F-Dansa-Mort-Verges.htm This procession is done on the streets during the night, people disguised as skeletons go dancing at the sound of drums. One of them is the representation of death and is wearing a scythe. The scythe is an agricultural instrument used for collecting at the end of the cycle, so its easy to relate it to the end of life. During this dances the scythe is all the time making circles at the surrounding area: it reaps everything on its way. Another skeleton carries a black flag with the Latin inscription: “nemini parco” which means “no one is spared” and another one in catalan that reads “ time is short”. There is also a third person who carries a clock, and finally, two skeleton kids with bowls full of ashes. Why im talking about this? Because all the symbols in this tradition are telling us the same message, and its one important to remember when thinking about the concept of death. Death is transition, but in the same sense than collecting the cereals when the time arrives. Those cereals will not be alive anymore, but they will have another use: to feed us. It’s the same for our experiences in life. If we not collect the cereals, they will end rotten. Everything has its time and everything needs an end. Most of us are afraid about important changes on life because we find difficult to assimilate the concept of death or endings. But changes are important for us to transform, otherwise we get stagnant. That’s Death card, not “life” card. I understand we have to adapt the meanings of the cards in the way they better suit ourselves, but is important not to try to make all the meanings so good and positive than they lose the real meaning of the symbolism. Just my point of view and sorry for writting that much... I like a lot Toth death card, and I can see it dancing easily… ;)

ribbitcat	05 May 2004
Hi Closrapexa - I have had Death mean death , and it was a challenging situation to discuss with the querent :-( As to Death meaning life - why , yes , I see how that can be . But it reminds me of Beethoven's 9th Symphony , final movement (bear with me here :-) ....death is coming , so one's reaction might be ...umm....a little OTT going the *other* way ...a final last fling , a final upsurge of energy and zest , a rebellion of sorts , before the inevitable ...and to mix metaphors :-) " do not go gentle into the night , Rage , rage , against the dying of the light" Hope that isn't too garbled :-) ribbitcat

Imagemaker	05 May 2004
Quote: I see that I'm beginning to have a problem with this card. I started having this issue after pondering Thoth's Death, which is so vibrant that it really doesn't have any Death in it, to me at least. Only new life. Instead of focusing on the meaning of the card, now that you're having this new "problem" with it, how about contemplating what has changed in your life/attitude/awareness to bring this about. Can you think of an event or new realization that triggered how you see the death card now? Everything in the cards is a reflection of us in some way. Get specific and personal in making connections about your reaction to the card, something may rise to the surface.

ncefafn	05 May 2004
Death has never meant an actual death for me. The one time I predicted a death, it was with the Hermit card. Perhaps Death would be better re-named to Change, or for the more spiritually minded, Transcendence. Hmm . . . that gives me an idea.

closrapexa	05 May 2004
Thank you everyone for your help, I really learned alot from all of you. Imagemaker, you may not know it, but what you said was onr of the most inspiring things I've ever heard. Yes, I've made some changes in my life, and this time is all about renewal. How didn't I see it before?!?

Imagemaker	05 May 2004
Wow, thanks!

WalesWoman	06 May 2004
I think the thing about Death is that we instinctively fear the unknown, even when it's so outworn and tired that we are sick of it but the alternative of perhaps losing everything we are familiar with is just too much to risk. We are creatures of habit and feel secure when we know what to expect, even if it means stagnating to death! It's taken so long to figure out Death does not mean the END, but evolution into something better. For instance in a relationship, we fear things will change and try to keep them the way it was in the beginning...how can the relationship grow and develop into anything that is fulfilling if it stays in the infant stages? Say you found the right path, great, but if you don't take steps because you might lose it, you will never get to your destination. Death just makes you walk and notice the change in the scenery along the way.

Shalott	07 May 2004
Hi, I couldn't agree more with Inana. I think we tend to focus on the new beginning that follows death, or at least that's what we talk about, whereas the card actually represents the end that happens before that new beginning. But that still isn't negative. If you're in a bad cycle, the Death card could be the best, most hopeful card you could get! The Aces or the Fool would have more to do with that new beginning. The Goddess deck calls Death "Transformation," and this has always bothered me, because to me, Death means that transformation isn't there just yet. You have to get through the end before you get that new beginning. But Death MUST mean the new beginning will come, except on that extremely rare occasion when it does mean physical death, it's just not there yet. It's a nuance, one of the things that makes Tarot really speak, rather than make blanket statements. I mean, how many cards have something to do with change? Death is just the first step in that process.

Shade	10 May 2004
I usually think my idea of Death has become outdated but was pleased to see taht many felt as I do. I think that while life is a cycling spiral the Death card appears to herald the end of one cycle. I know some look at the sun on the horizon in the card and say "Maybe it's the sun rising". But I'm one of the folks who interprets the ruins on the hills to be the Moon Gate we encounter 5 cards later. As the moon gate is in the west I see the sun as setting. And I would agree with thise who suggest allowing oneself to be comfortable (or uncomfortable) with the notion of death but to deal with it truthfully.

WalesWoman	16 May 2004
Last night seems to be becoming such a milestone...I did my first reading for someone I knew, a "live" reading. While we were laying out each card and discussing it, her SO walked into the room and made a joke about Death coming up in the reading. So I immediately launched into an explaination of what it means, that the situation has reached a point where it just can't continue as it has, it's reached the end of it's usefulness or is intolerable and has to change for further growth, realizing at the time, the more I tried to explain it, the more explainations I could find. Ironically, he left the room and the next card we turned over was...Death!!! All I could say was the Tarot has a great sense of humor.

The Death thread was originally posted on 05 May 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.