Devil as Mockery of Lovers and Hierophant

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	19 May 2004
In the thread which explores the hand position of the hierophant, Eightbitgnossis wrote: Quote: The Devil really seems to be a complete mockery of Hierophant and The Lovers. Pictures aside, if the people pictured had the practical knowledge of the Hierophant they'd take their chains right off. If they were truely The Lovers they wouldn't have the chains on in the first place. I thought this was an interesting and important observation that deserved its own thread. Why is the Devil portrayed as a mockery of the Lovers? What is the relationship between the Devil and the Lovers? How is the Devil Card a mockery also of the Hierophant, and what is the relationship between the Devil and the Hierophant. While we are on the subject, what about the Devil, and the Sun card, with the two little boys (if you are looking at the Marseille card), one of whom still has a tail?

Imagemaker	19 May 2004
Quote: Why is the Devil portrayed as a mockery of the Lovers? To me, it makes such a difference if you call this card "Love" instead of Lovers. There have been postings in the history thread that Love is the earlier label, and that the card refers to decisions more than relationships. So given that many Devil cards have the people chained, one could say that the Devil card mocks the decision/love capabilities of an individual. We could go lots of directions from there--do "mistaken" people neglect to choose a path of love and thereby end up chained to the Devil? So many Christian themes there. We've also had many postings on seeing the Devil as freedom and pleasure--very non-Christian interpretations. If the Devil mocks Lovers (as a couple, relationship qualities) the reasons and interpretations are much less clear to me. There's always so many ramifications and aspects to one of these questions, Firemaiden!

miss_apples	19 May 2004
Its simple really. The devil wants to challenge God (represented by the hierophant since he is a religious man) and Love.

firemaiden	19 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Imagemaker TSo given that many Devil cards have the people chained, one could say that the Devil card mocks the decision/love capabilities of an individual. We could go lots of directions from there--do "mistaken" people neglect to choose a path of love and thereby end up chained to the Devil? So many Christian themes there. Oo, oo, interesting, Imagemaker. So sort of like the Lovers Rx, lousy choices leading to messed up life, or... refusal to choose leading to an inablity to get unstuck?

Imagemaker	19 May 2004
Quote: refusal to choose leading to an inablity to get unstuck? That fear of choosing is indeed a big one for some situations/people--how many people will say "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't." So the Devil mocking passivity or indecision makes a lot of sense to me!

Imagemaker	19 May 2004
As for Devil vs Hierophant--outside the standard Christian obvious statements, I see the Devil as anti-rules and the Hierophant as rule-maker. I see them as at the opposite ends of a continuum of rule needs and uses (imagine this long line): Devil (no rules at all, no matter the concequences) . . . a few rules, rather chaotic situations. . . . sensible, useful rules . . . more rules than necessary, controlling . . . Hierophant (tradition obsessed by rules, no creative freedom)

punchinella	19 May 2004
What a fascinating thread firemaiden, thank you! Pulling out my Hadar TdM cards to check, I see what is meant about Devil & Pope . . . The Devil appears to be doing (with his arms) an inverse of what the Pope does. But this Devil/Lovers connection is even more interesting--particularly since the two cards connect through numerological reduction. It's almost as though Cupid & Devil are one & the same (or, two sides to the same principle): both figures compel, the one with an arrow, the other with a rope/chain. Possibly what we have here is a representation of early & late--?? On the one hand fascination, infatuation, choice of partner . . . & on the other the fact of being stuck with that partner, years later: the young & innocent Cupid grown or otherwise transformed into a dark, jeering angel . . . after all, they do both wear wings . . . Interesting--very interesting indeed! I can't seem to find any tail on my sun card :confused:

Rhiannon	19 May 2004
The Devil mocking the Lovers. :) I like it. I like punchinella's idea of it too, love changing into something else. Love changing to co-dependency, etc. All the negatives that can happen in a relationship. Also, I think it might be a portrayal of being so wrapped up in another's needs that we forget about self-love and self-respect. Perhaps the Devil is saying, "Yes well, loving some little hottie is all well and good, but what about your own goals and dreams? What do YOU need?" For many of us that is a difficult concept because we were raised to constantly give, give, give and we always put ourselves last. So, we are chained to others and to the idea that we must serve others. The Hierophant is about conformity, and also about learning. But I think it's a structured kind of learning. From Teacher to Student. Perhaps the Devil is rebelling against the idea of a Teacher and telling us to be Students of Life, don't read about it... go out and DO it! After all, there really is no substitute for experience. }) R :)

The Devil as Mockery of Lovers and Hierophant thread was originally posted on 19 May 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.