IX - The shining lamp, the Hermit Rx and Da'at

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	25 May 2004
In Holmes thread in the Kaballah forum: A Wisdom reading on the Da'at: he asked "What does Da'at mean on the soul level?" and pulled the IX- the Hermit reversed. (a fascinating thread, by the way, which deserves to be read and pondered at length, as well as the general thread on Da'at .) To this card association, jmd offered the following interpretation: *firemaiden chews on these words* mmm tasty. I don't normally chew words. Wondering if I should spit them out like chewing tobacco, or keep them until they become hard, then stick them under someone else's desk...hmmm. (chomp, chomp, chomp) What about that... ? How do we keep the light of the Hermit's lamp burning? What is the lamp anyway? What is it made of? (bioluminescence?) I mean.. what of us, what qualities in us, gives us the light? how does it get lit? how does it stay lit? Can it ever really be obscured? What happens when it is obscured? If it becomes obscured, or goes out, can it be re-lit? How would it be re-lit? What are the consequences of it going out? What magic can keep it burning? (I have a feeling you are going to ask me to do a reading..)

jmd	25 May 2004
I will only partially answer some of what seems to be included within those questions by referring to Goethe's Fairy Tale of the Green Snake and the Beautiful Lily - a book I would recommend to all interested in various esoteric matters, by the way. In it, at one important stage, it is asked: [font=papyrus] 'What is more valuable than Gold?' 'Light', comes the answer... 'And what is more valuable than Light ?' 'Conversation'... [/font] I'll have to get my copy of the book and re-look at it (I haven't re-read it for a number of years...)

jmd	25 May 2004
An online translation is available by Thomas Carlyle (1832). In that translation, what is usually given as 'conversation' is there translated as 'Speech'. Well worth the reading in a semi-meditative state :)

firemaiden	26 May 2004
Wow! interesting thought. So the life-line which is the Hermit's lamp allowing him to descend in the darkness, might be made of "conversation?" I wonder what the German was... -- "conversation" implies exchange - if you are alone with no one to converse with, there is of course, self-conversation, heeding, and conversing with inner voices and teachers. Perhaps the stream of light is made of the streams of words with which the far away little awareness-voice takes note, and narrates "I am typing now" when I am typing, and "I am walking now" when walking... (Or does it rather say "we"... "we are typing now, we are getting on the train now, we are plunging into darkness now, we are having a mighty tantrum now, aren't we?...") Conversation. hmmmmmmm.

Ravenswing	26 May 2004
Firemaiden-- It's full of fireflies and moonbeams. And just a touch of starsong. Fireflies for the wonder of a child. Moonbeams for dreams and inspiration. The hard part is the starsong. You have to believe it's really there. Then you have to be really, really quiet to hear it. Few have ever heard but a snatch of it, but once you do... You'll never forget it. fly well and listen Raven

firemaiden	26 May 2004
Ravenswing... divine spark? The voice of the spirit? a spark of light from somewhere far away... I have twice pulled a card to ask about the lamp: This morning: (Thoth) What is the lamp? → XV - the Devil ... This afternoon: (Fiabe) In the pressure of the darkness, can it be obscured? What causes the lamp to go out? → XV - Il Diavolo

Thirteen	26 May 2004
The LIGHT here is: The MIND We are often told that light "shines out of our eyes"--which isn't true, but when our eyes sparkle and shine, it's usually because our mind is on fire. And it comes out in our expression. We are the lantern, and the light is the mind. You might well ask, "Why mind and not spirit?" You can call it "The Spirit" if you like, but it's a mental spirit, the spirit of awakening within. Those times where we say "Ahhh!" like "I get it!" It's not the blazing fire of the spirit that moves us to, say, lead a huge protest march or stand before a tank or go on a hunger strike. The spirit of the Heart, all passion and pride and compassion and courage. None of these are the Hermit. The Hermit is about ideas, discoveries and contemplation, and as such, his spirit is the MIND. Quote: How do we keep the light of the Hermit's lamp burning? By seeking that which stimulates the mind. Conversation is good, but knowledge, information, discovery, creativity are also useful oils for maintaining this flame. Even meditation or prayer which can bank it and keep it steadily burning. And, of course, the Tarot ;) Quote: how does it get lit? A friend working in a comic bookstore told a story: a little boy wandered into the comic store while his mother went next door to a beauty salon. It was his first time he ever seen such books, the colorful covers and fantastic stories they portrayed, and as he gazed around his eyes lit up. They blazed with revelation, with the desire to read and discover. Then his mother came in, grabbed him by the arm, and dragged him out saying, "Oh, no you don't. I don't want you to be creative." Thus the light gets lit...and, tragically, extinguished. Quote: Can it ever really be obscured? What happens when it is obscured? Of course it can be obscured--ever feel dull witted? Stupid? Like you can't think? What happens to you when your mind goes blank? But that light can always be re-lit. And you don't even have to ask how--take a nature hike, visit the art muesum, meet up with stimulating minds for good conversation or turn your television to a science or history channel. Meditate/pray, read a really good book...or shuffle the cards, do a reading then come chat about it here. Quote: What are the consequences of it going out? Do I even have to answer that? Dull, lifeless eyes. People who don't think and don't care to think. Sheep who do what their told. Beautiful minds wasted. I wouldn't, I really wouldn't let the light go out. As for your reading, The Lamp as Devil :D Ah, the tarot knows. Thoth-wise--and we have to seperate the Thoth Devil from any other Devil--the Devil is about powerful, secret knowledge. And it's completely apt for being YOUR Lamp. Knowledge, discovery and things that stimulate the mind are your weakness, aren't they, Firemaiden? Can you go into a bookstore without running up that credit card? Information, creativity...THE TAROT, is what you're "addicted to" yes? You're also attracted to stimulating minds that keep your lamp lit, no? Can hardly keep away from them. Hence, the Lamp is the Devil--the THOTH Devil, for you. But that which can also cause the flame to go out is also the Devil--and that's the other deck, and it's meaning of the card--Il Diavolo: people who don't want you to think. Who tell you, "I'll think for you," and you believe them. That's the end of the light, isn't it?

firemaiden	26 May 2004
Wow! Thirteen, thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions. :D The Mind, yes, okay! that goes along with the "conversation" idea. I know exactly what you mean about the eyes blazing. (Can I go into a bookstore without running up my credit card? um... no. hahahah :D)

Thirteen	26 May 2004
It occurs to me that I should clarify how I got that interpetation of the Devil--if not for you, Firemaiden, then for others. The question was: What is the Lamp? -Devil (Thoth) I read it two ways: 1) The Lamp is that which you desire or are most attracted to (addicted to). And in this case, "Knowledge" or feeding the mind would seem apt for Firemaiden. 2) The Lamp is secret knowledge or curiosity. And I'll add: 3) The Eye: In The Quabalistic Tarot, Wang points out that the Devil is the "Eye." I don't take this literally as "an Eye" but rather whatever we use to see the world. In the end, that's usually the "mind's eye" and/or the "inner eye" rather than just our vision. The light is the mind. The lamp, directing that light, the eye. Just a few more thoughts on that.

firemaiden	26 May 2004
Oh yes, that is right, and there are eyes all over the devil. The Durer tarot shows a goat with an eye on the side of the goat. There is a link between the concept of "fascination", and the evil eye "fascinatio." And you have linked the lamp with light in the eyes. Very interesting.

Moonbow*	26 May 2004
This is a great thread, I need to read it over again and read all the links.. Thirteen your words almost sent me into a meditative state while reading them. You talk about seeking knowledge, conversation or creativity to keep that spark within us alive and this means so much to me at the moment. I've been throwing myself into meditation again lately and I think what you have written is helping me to answer many questions that I have about the mind. I think I need things in boxes and maybe they just don't need to be. Is it the mind, the Higher self, the Spirit, a guide, intuition, subconscious or are they all one and the same thing

Thirteen	26 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Thirteen your words almost sent me into a meditative state while reading them. Cool. My work here is done :D Glad you found those musings of use. Quote: Is it the mind, the Higher self, the Spirit, a guide, intuition, subconscious or are they all one and the same thing Could be!

TemperanceAngel	28 May 2004
Great thread I really like it, The Hermit is one of my favourite cards and yesterday at work, it was in everyones readings that I did and I often wonder when that happens, is it for me or them? And then I come home and find this thread and am very intrigued. Firemaiden, great questions, because it makes me think could you have a Hermit holding no lamp? Are there any decks that do? Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden How do we keep the light of the Hermit's lamp burning? I keep thinking about breezes (is that a word?) You know when you are sitting outside in the evening and a breeze seems to swirl around you from nowhere and the flame starts to flicker and you wonder: Is it going to go out? So you move the lamp and place it in a protective place where the breeze can't reach it.... What is the lamp anyway? Now this question can run quite deep, very profund and I wish that I had a great quote from a monk to answer this. But I don't, so instead you will just have to listen to my ponderings. The Hermit in the Medieval Scapini deck stands on top of water, as opposed to a mountain in RWS and I wish I knew what the Marseilles image was because I feel it very appropriate. The lamp doesn't appear to have light per se, but instead color and I am obsessed by the notion that the Scapini deck is linked to chakras. We see red, orange, yellow and purple and blue. The Hermits cloak is green and purple....so is the lamp us? Or at least our energy points, a connection of all the chakras. What is it made of? (bioluminescence?) I mean.. what of us, what qualities in us, gives us the light? Is it made of energy then....and what gives this energy light? Other posts have given great answers: knowledge and conversation. But what about love, unconditional love, surely that would bring light into the energy. And truth, wisdom.....intuition, understanding....grounding....just think about what each chakra represents, what each color means...vibrations... how does it get lit? Maybe it begins lit...ignited by the soul? how does it stay lit? By all that has been stated thus far in posts... Can it ever really be obscured? What happens when it is obscured? What happens if you put your hand around a flame in a lamp? It becomes dimmed. Energy can do this, so can our mind and our spirit. If it becomes obscured, or goes out, can it be re-lit? How would it be re-lit? Takes me back to my first thought about the breeze, sometimes the breeze becomes more like a strong wind and blows the flame out. What if you try and re-light the flame in the wind and you can't get it re-lit? Sometimes you just have to weather the storm. What are the consequences of it going out? This makes me think of the 'dark night of the soul' concept. Would one just stumble along blindly in the dark trying to find ways to relight their flame? Thirteen talks about being dull and lifeless which is so true but what if you aren't dull and lifeless instead you have lost your way and it's so dark you can't figure out how to re-light your flame? Perhaps this is when we can't rely on the inner and need to turn to the outer (or others) for help. What magic can keep it burning? Life is magic, nature is magic, people are magic, the Universe is magic....whatever your magic is that will keep it burning... Thanks for letting me explore ideas that had been floating around in my head for the last week or so...great thread...hope it stays lit for a long time ;)

The IX - The shining lamp, the Hermit Rx and Da'at thread was originally posted on 25 May 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.