Reading through different styles

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Rhiannon	19 May 2004
I just had a question from a friend of mine who is learning the tarot. She is confused as to the meaning of some cards because she is referring to one website for a card meaning where the cards definitions are based on the Rider Waite deck, and then she will refer to another website that gets it's definitions from the Thoth deck. Now, I am of the opinion that once you learn the tarot, you can apply that knowledge to any deck at all. Regardless of the style. The 6 of Cups is the 6 of Cups whether it is drawn by one artist or another, whether the artist used the definitions of Waite, Thoth or Marseilles, etc. Having said that... I think that while someone is learning the tarot, that they should pick a style and stick with it. If you are switching back and forth between styles (Waite, Thoth, etc.) it just confuses the issue because some of the definitions of cards will be very different between them. And, while I'm a big advocate of using your intuition, I think having a good solid reference is a must. Does anyone agree or disagree? I just thought it might be an interesting subject for debate. ;) R :)

dadsnook2000	19 May 2004
Yes, in the beginning it is easiest to work with one deck AND with only a very few spreads. The positions in each spread have to be understood and the card's meaning (when in that position) has to be adapted. This is enough for any new tarot student to have to cope with. Dave.

CreativeFire	19 May 2004
I agree also Rhiannon, whilst you are still learning the cards and "building up" your tarot deck in your mind it is best to stick with one deck or style. What I mean by the tarot deck in your mind, is that even though I may be using different decks with different images, sometimes I refer back to the deck in my mind (which for me is RWS style) and then that sometimes prompts me with additional insight into the deck I maybe using eg. Sacred Circle or Thoth for a reading. As I learn then different decks, my "minds eye" deck evolves to include other images as well from Thoth etc - if that makes sense :) They meanings of the deck in my mind becomes then a combination of learnt meanings and also intuitive relationships that have built up over time. I guess this is one of those things where everyone is different and you go with what works for you individually, however I did find I made a lot more progress when I just focussed on one as a base and then built up from there, instead of jumping back and forth. Cheers CreativeFire

tmgrl2	19 May 2004
I agree with CreativeFire as far as my learning...I started with RW...I like the Radiant...then Diana and jmd got me cookin' on the Tarot de Marseille...Right now, I am laying out the Camoin-Jodo TdM cards next to the RW ...and going through Thirteen's Symbolizing Thread...I look for elements that best fit the card, the ones I like the least and what I think is missing that could be there...It seems to be a good exercise...As Diana said, three's are three's...so when I see the Trois d'Epee and the Three of Swords side by side, I look at them and am internalizing a set of meanings that fit...and, of course, as I read, I add more and more...and I am just beginning. I don't see them as being in conflict, although it can be difficult if one learned the RW, e.g. and then switched to TdM...but I am learning with both of these at once ...and I am staying away from other decks for reading and learning at this point...Occasionally I pull a card, e.g., from the Tarot of the Saints, or Thoth or Fey, or Gilded Tarot...but my regular work and probably my regular decks for awhile will be RW and TdM. Eventually, one may win me over...I am leaning toward the TdM...I am amazed at what comes up in the Minors, when I look at them... terri

Niomi	19 May 2004
I find that conflicting meanings are just different faces of the same meaning. My Ancient Egyptian incorporate both Thoth and RWS ideals, so it's interesting and sometimes necessary to look up meanings for both styles of interpretation. It's often surprising to find out how your own first impressions and different meanings from books could mean the same thing after all.

Shalott	19 May 2004
Howdy, I'm not sure RWS and Thoth meanings completely coincide...I know just a little about Thoth, I have a friend who is learning right now (and lurking here!) and has told me some, plus what I've read here, it sounds like Thoth (allegedly) does follow Marseille more closely...but then your RWS and clones, the overwhelming majority of decks in the USA, don't always match up with those "schools". Then you've got your this-deck-only decks. I don't really think that if you learn one style, those meaning necessarily carry over to every other style. You can use them that way I suppose. But if you look at the same card from two completely different decks I don't think they will necesarily match up ESPECIALLY if you're intuitive and don't get the same ideas from possibly very different artwork. Here's my own idea of how the "Schools" are divided: -Marseille - the labeled Marseille decks, I include almost anything in which the pips are read in this style, although I realize this is technically incorrect. -RWS - Anything that is a "clone" of RWS, not just the many recolorings, but like Robin Wood, Goddess. -Thoth - until recently I've considered Crowley to be totally on his own but there are some popular decks that turned out to be based on Thoth, like Enchanted, at least it's suspected to be. -Deck specific systems - where a creator or author went of on their own ideas, independent of any of the big schools. So, I wouldn't expect decks from the different schools to match up. I mean, if you can read RWS, then you can transfer that to Robin Wood fairly easily, but Thoth...well, just because you're experienced with Tarot it might be easi-ER, but it's not going to be the same thing. Quote: Having said that... I think that while someone is learning the tarot, that they should pick a style and stick with it. If you are switching back and forth between styles (Waite, Thoth, etc.) it just confuses the issue because some of the definitions of cards will be very different between them. And, while I'm a big advocate of using your intuition, I think having a good solid reference is a must. This I couldn't agree with more! Well said!

Major Tom	20 May 2004
In my tarot class I take my students through the meanings of all the cards using examples from the RWS, the Thoth and the Tarot of Marseilles. We compare and contrast the meanings we get from the pictures on the RWS, the keywords we get from the Thoth and meanings we glean from the number and suite method for the Tarot of Marseilles. Granted, most of my students gravitate to the RWS. They usually say they find it easier to connect to the pictures, but I consider it important that they are at least exposed to the 3 major types of decks. As we know from the Comparative method, pictures of the decks you've studied come unbidden to your mind's eye during a reading. I guess I'm saying I may not see much benefit in jumping back and forth, but I see great benefit in a structured approach to the 3 main types of decks.

firemaiden	20 May 2004
That's very intersting Tom! Apart from a few keywords in the pips, the Thoth matches up pretty well with the RWS "standard" meanings. The Thoth was my first deck. It took me quite a while before I noticed any kind of conflict with other deck meanings. There are ways of reconciling these differences. Margarete Petersen found interesting ways to bring the Thoth and RWS meanings together in her interpretations. (See her texts on card meanings in my study threads in MP study group)

tmgrl2	20 May 2004
I'm not familiar with Thoth...but I have it...I am finding my "comparative" work with RW and TdM very interesting and don't see them in conflict...I agree with MT and fm...one can bring accord to the differences...maybe for me, it's easier since I am learning them together and developing an internal sense of the card....It weems to be working. terri

Astraea	20 May 2004
I learned on Thoth and RWS at the same time, and didn't perceive it as a formidable hurdle because a) their discrepancies made me question and search for a nexus of meaning, and b) the artistic styles of both decks yield clues as to which approaches to the mind, emotions and physical life will prove most fruitful. The Thoth is a very "Wagnerian" deck, I think: dark, deep, loamy. RWS speaks to the inner self through the imagery of life within a socially-stratified cultural setting, whereas Thoth represents the layers of the self, mediated through the symbolism of colour, texture, abstraction and visceral association. For me, RWS might be likened to waking consciousness (even in its portrayal of agony), whereas Thoth speaks the language of the dream. As Niomi says, they are like two sides of the same coin. If one can keep that in mind, I think one can profitably study both at the same time. (Edited to say that the above refers to RWS and Thoth as archetypal forms -- those particular decks, rather than later variants.)

raeanne	20 May 2004
Hi all, Well, I think it depends on the person doing the learning. Some people are very linear in their thinking. They do one thing then move on to the next and the next. They take things very sequentially. For people who learn like this, they need to pretty much stick to one deck until they learn it and then branch out. Other people are omni-directional thinkers. They build concepts by taking a bit from this and a little from that and then add a pinch of something else. For these people, they need to pull from several decks at a time to make any sense out of things. One deck at a time would be too flat for them. For me, I tend to be a bit of both! If I am leaning scientific stuff, I tend to be linear. For artistic stuff I am more omni-directional.

tmgrl2	20 May 2004
Good comment, raeanne...that' s me...I need to use RW and TdM together to learn..since I love both...it seems to be working for me... terri

Vincent	20 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Major Tom ...We compare and contrast the meanings we get from the pictures on the RWS... Just out of interest, which do you believe came first... the meanings, or the pictures? Vincent

Vincent	21 May 2004
*****

Shalott	21 May 2004
I am mainly dividing them up based on minors/pips, and their DMs. Although I realize thet AC and Waite both got their ideas mainly from Golden Dawn, but from what I hav seen of Thoth, he took some added liberties with the majors...The Aeon? Lust? I'm not judging, I'm just saying I think these things, to me, grant him his very own school, separate from Waite. To me, a division that uses "occult" vs "non occult," well, I'm assuming these means "for divinitory purposes" or for...Tarocchi? Well, since I have no clue how to play Tarocchi, the only use I have is to seek some sort of enlightenment, whether one calls this divination or meditation, whatever. Sometimes the fact that I am 100% self-taught shows...sometimes ya'll just have to bear with me! :| Major Tom said: Quote: I guess I'm saying I may not see much benefit in jumping back and forth, but I see great benefit in a structured approach to the 3 main types of decks. How cool, I wish I'd had the benefit of this kind of class! ...which is why I'm here now!

Vincent	21 May 2004
*****

Shalott	22 May 2004
Vincent, I hope you understand I'm not trying to force anyone to subscribe to my idea here, I find it interesting to see how others organize ideas and this was just my addition to the whole: should Waite and AC's DM's match up. I find Thoth...interesting, certainly, so thank you for your informative posts.

The Reading through different styles thread was originally posted on 19 May 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.