Symbolizing: The Devil

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Thirteen	30 May 2004
On to some of the most interesting Majors and their symbolism. What you like and what you don't. What you feel ought to be there...or not. For this thread, The Devil. Just answer one or more of the following: 1) What elements from any Devil card from any deck do you feel BEST symbolize the Devil? (Example: "I like cards with a real goat-horned, goat-hooved devil.") 2) What elements common to most Devil cards in most decks do you really feel are all WRONG for the Devil? (Example: "I don't think the Devil Card should feature the steryotypical, Judeo-Christian Devil at all! I like cards that have no such image and perhaps are even named something else, like 'Pan' or 'Temptation.'") 3) What symbol have you always felt was right for the Devil, but you've yet to see it? (Example: "I'd like to see Devil wearing a suit and surrounded by money."). You don't have to answer all the above, but do offer some "why's?" as to what you answer. Why don't you/do you like the Devil to feature a typical Devil? What about that sterotyped devil image makes the card feel/not feel like the Devil to you?

Dakota	30 May 2004
I must have a Devil whose arms echo the posture of the Magician; the Devil has always seemed the "dark side" of the Magician. Also the human figures in the scene must show that their "bondage" is primarily voluntary (loose chains generally) and that it is a bondage to earthly things (flame of passion, fruit of indulgence in the RWS decks).

hyatt	30 May 2004
1) What elements from any Devil card from any deck do you feel BEST symbolize the Devil? I like a good dark devil. Horns are a must, I enjoy as mentioned the magician posture. Also in my Secrets deck the crotch of the devil is very illuminated. I like a reference to earthly lust and materialism. Also the phallic form in the Thoth deck is very devil. 2) What elements common to most Devil cards in most decks do you really feel are all WRONG for the Devil? I'm not crazy about the decks that sugar coat the devil into something less menacing. When I see a deck that has a light- hearted devil I am really turned off by the deck. 3) What symbol have you always felt was right for the Devil, but you've yet to see it? I wouldn't mind seeing a modern deck having a very handsome well dressed devil. He would have to be a player and a bad*ss. I know that contridicts what i was saying above, but I could go for a smooth talking devil too. Maybe he could even be in a casino or a brothel.

Flavio	02 Jun 2004
1.- I think the loose chains and the upside-down pentagram are part of the best symbolism in the card. Scary Devils are good to increase the impact of the message (the scarier and more sordid, the better). 2.- I would like to see more Devil cards with human face instead of goat's, to make feel more human the materialism and lust feelings. 3.- I know the Devil only has two hands, if one of them hold the chains or if the chains were attached to any part of his body (like a belt) would reinforce the idea of bondage. If the humans in the card showed a little pain or discomfort would be nice (desire gave birth to pain...)

tmgrl2	02 Jun 2004
Tarot de Marseille: (Hadar) What I like most is also what disturbs me the most: This devil is pictured almost as a comic character....waving with one hadn....breasts (androgynous) funny looking helmet with antlers instead of horns and then the two "humans" almost as mini-devils with their own set of antler headdresses bound loosely by chains to the devil's stand...and the tails on the humans.... It doesn't fit with my childhood picture of the devil so I laugh when I see it, but I do feel it depicts that we humans are of both natures...good and evil choices are set before us...and as "animals" (tails) of nature we must choose. The image of the devil in the Tarot de Marseille diminishes the power of the devil I grew up with...and I like that. Also the yellow crown of "intelligence" with the white sword of "purity" but held in the earthly domain...a devil wanting to be powerful, to act, but always trapped by the earthly matter where his feet stand. ...and by man's free will. What I like least? the whole comic nature of the card from the smiling? face to the breasts, to the face on the stomach with the tongue sticking out. I want more mystery with the devil. What's missing? Some mystery...too much of a "comic sense" to me.. Gilded Tarot: http://www.ciromarchetti.com/gilded_tarot/major.html# You can click on it here to see it. What I like: The pentagram...the "5" implied...order and disorder. The large headdress covering the devil's eyes so that s(he) is blind..this figure could definitely be either sex, so androgyny is implied. Devil doesn't "see" ....only offers and man makes the decisions with free will... Love the fire below, which could also be light...devil consumed by its own fires...or perhaps the " light " of humans being something the devil is constantly trying to "put out" by tempting man's lower or animal nature. What like least: the very large horns bother me...here again, I see the headdress not as antlers on a crown in the TdM, but as similar to a Court Jester's headdress, bringing in again the element of "foolishness" for me. This card is still developing for me so I don't know what I want that isn't there in either of these decks. terri

MeeWah	06 Jun 2004
2) What elements common to most Devil cards in most decks do you really feel are all WRONG for the Devil? (Example: "I don't think the Devil Card should feature the steryotypical, Judeo-Christian Devil at all! I like cards that have no such image and perhaps are even named something else, like 'Pan' or 'Temptation.'") I think all such depictions issue from a stereo-typical but possibly inadvertent mindset indicative of a continuing theme from ancient times to discredit the alternative or Pagan sensibility. That is, the efforts to eliminate the earthy or Pagan influences, the latter of which variously expressed as the Horned God, Pan, the Green Man, etc. Also suggestive of Bacchus/Dionysus--respectively, from the Roman & Greek mythologies as the god of wine, pleasure & fertillity. Such images are not without power so the depictions of The Devil per se may have its place depending upon the particular deck or the theme. It tends to moreorless limit the shadow aspect in sum to one card whence all cards have their shadow aspects. For this reason, I tend to favour the Robin Wood version, which depicts a man & a woman chained to a treasure chest. For example, the serpent or the snake is both a positive & a negative. Such an image can represent the life force or knowledge; the use or mis-use of energy or knowledge.

tmgrl2	06 Jun 2004
I agree, MeeWah...The horns still bother me wherever they appear in a deck... terri

Sillanza	07 Jun 2004
I enjoy the Devil in the Spiral deck: the Devil figure is holding up a mirror in which an image of a horrified woman is reflected. She is horned, so clearly she's seeing the devil is indeed of her own making. Very nice! Also, the tortured man & woman are holding up the mirror, and are tethered to the devil by slack golden cords. Other than their forced labor, they appear to be more like puppets than slaves. This card also contains a snake image. I appreciate the "snakes as bearers of knowledge," and "snakes as seducers of man," message that may be intended, but I'd associate this message with the moon more than the devil. As for what would be interesting, I would like to see a man & woman climbing an endless staircase (perhaps a wheel?) with the devil dangling the objects of their desire just out of reach. Oh, and they should have donkey ears.

The Symbolizing: The Devil thread was originally posted on 30 May 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.