Temperance and the Star

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ravenswing	15 May 2004
These two just connected together in a way I've never considered before. It's 'cause of the way the Star is depicted-- I've been enamored by the Nigel Jackson Tarot as of late. It's the only Star I can recall in which the woman is standing and looking you straight in the eye. Naked, smirky and daring... On the other hand, Temperance is an obviously female angel in a right-side red, left-side white long dress (though her feet poke out). She's got a garland, necklace and belt of alternating red and white roses. Rather than facing outwards, she seems to be looking at the lower cup she holds in her right hand. Both are standing on the ground, a river just to their right. Temperance stands with feet apart, Star with feet together. Temperance holds two cups with a wavy water flowing one to another. Star has her two urns, not much bigger than the cups. She pours one into the river, one to the ground-- it hits her left foot before flowing off. And suddenly these two became polar opposites for me. We put our Sevles together at Temperance. Then go through the Devil, blow up at the Tower... So do we dis-integrate at the Star? Hmmmmm.... Any thoughts? fly well Raven

Thirteen	15 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing We put our Sevles together at Temperance. Then go through the Devil, blow up at the Tower... And put ourselves back together again with the Star ;) After the Tower, with our world shaken up, the rubble surrounding us, it's the Star that offers us hope. It's the star that offers us a drink in desert. Given that, I suspect they're less "opposite" than complementry, a continuing maturity tale. Temperance, or Alchemy, as Crowley has it, takes the knowledge we have and metamorphosizes it. Blends ideas we'd never thought of blending to create a new concoction. Doing this makes us feel "angelic"--above the world and its mundane concerns. I'm sure you've been there, when idea or experiments connect and you feel transported, as if you're looking down at it all and seeing what others can't see. But down to Earth we're brought by the Devil and our own very human desires. And that's when the Tower, our falsehoods about ourselves collapses and we're left with naked reality. It is after these trials and trivals, that the Star finally takes that knowledge, that alchemical liquid we created back in Temperance, and pours it out so that it can, in the future, bear fruit. Pours it out so the traveler can drink and continue on. Perhaps we need the trial of The Devil and the fall of the Tower to teach us that holding tight to our new knowledge does not gain us the hope, the future or the light that pouring it out on the land will. Perhaps those two cards are what strips the angel of robes and wings and bring her to kneel at last to create a pool of water, offering refreshment and reflecting the stars and the hope they offer. At least, that's how I see it.

Jewel-ry	15 May 2004
I always see the Star as in the desert too, at an oasis, replenishing and rejuvenating before she continues the journey. Its a time for acceptance of where you are now and working out where you are going. :)

firemaiden	16 May 2004
How did I miss this thread Ravenswing? Are they opposites? Actually, how do we distinguish them? They have so much in common? What is the difference between these two gals really?

Ravenswing	17 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen Perhaps we need the trial of The Devil and the fall of the Tower to teach us that holding tight to our new knowledge does not gain us the hope, the future or the light that pouring it out on the land will. Perhaps those two cards are what strips the angel of robes and wings and bring her to kneel at last to create a pool of water, offering refreshment and reflecting the stars and the hope they offer. [/b] I think everybody's missing my point. There a difference in imagery in the Jackson. No pool of water, it's a river. Both figures are standing with both feet on the ground-- Temperance with feet spread, Star with her feet togethr. Temperance isn't looking out, she looks at one of the cups. The Star isn't kneeling. She's rather brazen and smirky, standing straight, tall and naked-- she the most female of all the cards, hair down to her knees. She pours one urn into the river, one onto her left foot-- it flows off from there. So again-- do we dis-integrate at the Star?? If so, then I would see Moon and Sun as experiencing the ultimate of our Self as separate polar opposites. Judgment puts us back together again. so we become the World... How's that one? fly well Raven

jmd	17 May 2004
I personally find it interesting that Temperance is linked to one of the four (Greek) cardinal virtues, and the Star is at times linked as the star of Hope, and hence one of the three 'theological' (Christian) virtues. Yet, another aspect which also emerges in my reflections is that Temperance reminds me of depictions of Maria (Mariam) the Jewess as early alchemist, whereas the Star recalls to my mind the annual flooding of the Nile and Isian imagery. Both, then, can be related to Alexandrian syncretic impulses... but one is clothed, and works by admixing in proper portions appropriate elements - the other by giving forth, to parched or drenched area, eternal rejuvenating waters. In the sequence, XIII stands following the reaping, where all that has gone before now has to be re-combined. XVII kneels following the liberating catapulting of the Tower, where the energies liberated are further freed and allowed to penetrate higher realms. In the sequence, could it be also that once Death has been reached, a review of one's life needs to be perviewed in XIIII, followed by the ('kamaloka') purgings and bindings felt as a consequence (XV), only to eventually be released XVI in order to finally ascend to the higher planetary spheres, of which the Star (XVII) represents the first step.

Thirteen	17 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing The Star isn't kneeling. She's rather brazen and smirky, standing straight, tall and naked-- she the most female of all the cards, hair down to her knees. She pours one urn into the river, one onto her left foot-- it flows off from there. Well, you didn't post pictures and I don't have the Jackson deck :) But it seems to me that this reinforces rather than undermines what I said. Temperance, clothed and neutral, scoops the fluid up out of the river, examines it, alters it. The Star, in trumph, stripped, and transformed herself, pours that fluid back into the river. Thus, one is ambiguous or, rather, wanting balance--feet apart, one foot on either shore as it were. The other, tempered by her experiences, has taken a side and boldly proclaimed it with the pouring out of the water, feet together on one side. Am I correct in understaning, by the way, that you're interpeting being clothed and taking liquid up at Temperance vs. the stripping down and pouring out at The Star as unity of self vs. pouring out of self? If so, then the main problem I'm having with this is that you seem to use both image and meaning when interpeting Temperance, but use only image when interpeting the Star. That doesn't seem fair. If you're going to use image and meaning to understand Temperance in ths sequence of cards, then you have to do the same for the Star. And the meaning of the Star just doesn't support disintegration (or even de-integration). It DOES support giving yourself away for a higher purpose. The pouring out of water, far from being emblematic of splitting or disolving, is more in the tradition of spilling out libations. Offerings. This and the nakedness might indicate sacrifice, even a return to the sourse, a new sort of unity. In which case, we could see Temperance as being divided from that original source since he/she took water out. Had you considered that? I suppose you could say that there is a negation of self in the Star's traditionally feminine role of healing, nurturing and giving--of pouring out herself rather than taking. But this doesn't seem equal to the mental and emotional split, your suggested bi-polarization (Moon and Sun). To the contrary, in image and meaning the Star would seem to know precisely who she is and what she's doing. She is so whole and complete that she can give of herself without de-integrating.

Ravenswing	17 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen Am I correct in understaning, by the way, that you're interpeting being clothed and taking liquid up at Temperance vs. the stripping down and pouring out at The Star as unity of self vs. pouring out of self? What I am seeing is a string of opposing factors. Clothed vs. naked; contained system of water vs. water spilling out; open stance vs. closed stance; gazing at cup vs. looking straight outwards (which is the opposite of the RWS). As an artist, I wonder why all this. What is he trying to say? Line of thought: Temperance put things together-- is the Star taking them apart again?

Ravenswing	17 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen And the meaning of the Star just doesn't support disintegration (or even de-integration). It DOES support giving yourself away for a higher purpose. I agree completely here. I see the Star as cosmic consciousness. That's the reason why Jackson's Star threw me... so much visual opposition with Temperance. cont.

Ravenswing	17 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen [i suppose you could say that there is a negation of self in the star's traditionally feminine role of healing, nurturing and giving--of pouring out herself rather than taking. but this doesn't seem equal to the mental and emotional split, your suggested bi-polarization (moon and sun). to the contrary, in image and meaning the star would seem to know precisely who she is and what she's doing. she is so whole and complete that she can give of herself without de-integrating. [/b] This was an extention of the premise that there was dis-integration at the Star. If Star dis-integrates, where is re-integration?? I never mentioned a mental and emotional split... "If so, then I would see the Moon and Sun as experiencing the ultimate of our Self as separate polar opposites" I can see how this may easily be taken to mean a split. I saw these as simultaneous. A good illustration is the Moon and Sun from the Mary-el Tarot. Stick them side by side. I guess my basic question is why it is that I see these two as such drastic opposites.... thanks for the angles. more food for thought fly well Raven maybe some day I'll figure out how you do multiple quotes :)

jmd	18 May 2004
I realise the following comments take it out of the current considerations, but thought that, given Ravenswing's interests generally, I would also add some of my own personal Kabalistic reflections. Please note that I am NOT suggesting that these are within the deck... rather, they are a way I personally often choose to work. I generally and for numerous years, as Jackson also does (as I later discovered), pair the Major Arcana: IIII with XIIII, and VII with XVII (as these are the ones discussed, the others do not matter so much here). As pairs, I also place these within the Sefirot along our way of ascent. What is interesting is that both pairs fall within the pillar on the left (sometimes named 'Severity'), with III/XIIII in Hod, and VII/XVII in Geburah/Pahad (I specifically mention Pahad, as awe is here important). On our way of ascent, then, though there is a proper admixture of that which comes from above in XIIII, it is the opening to the flow itself which becomes more important when in the Merkabah (Chariot) - the open flow as depicted in XVII, as one kneels, in reverence, naked before the grace of the Divine as one strives towards gnosis, trembling in perfect stillness upon the razor's edge between orthodoxy and heresy. Only such makes the Charioteer truely at ease in his inner mastery of ascent and descent. By contrast - for what it's worth - the right-hand pillar (at times called 'Mercy') has III/XIII in Netzah, and VI/XVI in Gedulah/Hesed.

The Temperance and the Star thread was originally posted on 15 May 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.