Lots of random questions!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Chibi pic pic	09 Jul 2004
Okay, most of my questions will seem completely random, and that's because I'm trying to write a story based on the tarot and need clarification (just in case one day I actually publish it and devoted tarot readers don't send me flames or something). So, here's random question number one: If a man like the Magician and a woman like the Priestess met each other, would they have any chance of being compatible? I only ask this because they are polar opposites, so I guess my real question is do opposites really attract? And if they did have a relationship, what would it be like? I have another question dealing with major arcana cards corresponding to a particular minor arcana suit. In the Goddess Tarot Deck, they correspond Strength to Wands, The Lovers to Cups, The Wheel of Fortune to Pentacles and The Magician to Swords. When I made up my own connections to the major and minor arcana, I did it off of first impression (like most of my stuff in my story, though I am working on it). I had The Magician correspond with Wands, The Priestess with Cups, The Hanged Man with Pentacles and The Hermit with Swords. With The Magician, I saw him as a person who possesses power over other people, and even though that takes intelligence, the energy that is with the Wands seems just as important. The Priestess seemed very mystical to me, which made me think of the Seven of Cups, and that was the initial connection that I had with her. Cups also correlates with the Moon, and the Priestess and the Moon seemed very closely connected. With the Hanged Man, I admit I have a much weaker arguement for this one since then (and now) I'm still not sure about this card. I had read somewhere that sometimes the Hanged Man had coins falling out of his pockets. In my story, I had the Hanged Man try and give up material pleasures before it destroys him, which directly ties in with Pentacles and its concern with the physical and material wealth. The Hermit, before I did any research on the card, seemed the most obvious connection with Swords. Hermits go off on their own to learn something that they normally could not learn in their present environment (though I saw the Hermit as stationary then when he's moving in the card). Hermits, therefore, gain wisdom that they can share with others. It made me think of the King and Queen of Swords in that respect, learned people who want to share their knowledge. I'm not saying that the other interpretations are wrong, and I can definetly see if someone can make a case for all of them (both make sense in my opinion, though I think the Goddess Tarot took the positive aspects of the suits). I just wanted to see what you all think.

Thirteen	09 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Chibi pic pic If a man like the Magician and a woman like the Priestess met each other, would they have any chance of being compatible? I only ask this because they are polar opposites, so I guess my real question is do opposites really attract? And if they did have a relationship, what would it be like? They'd do better as brother and sister. There's an interesting question in the readings section about a husband and wife represented in a reading as HPS (wife) and Magician (husband) and the major problem was that the husband was sure the wife was keeping secrets from him. The HPS keeps secrets. She moody and she likes to be alone. Like the moon, she sometimes shines a light on things, but other times, she veils her face and is all darkness and secrets--Water Elemental. The Magician is gregarious. He loves to show off, and he loves to talk. According to Rider-Waite associations, he's Mercury--a fast talker--Air Elemental. His words and hands weave the spell, all fast talk and quick moves, like the god Mercury. As brother and sister, they'd be fine. This isn't to say they couldn't work out as partners, but they'd have to really understand and support each other--be proud and love each other's differences. Here's another way it would work: If he's the Magician on stage, and she's the silent, secret partner who helps his tricks works; who does the reseach and feeds info to him. She's almost never seen, but she's always backstage. Meanwhile, he's always out on stage, always doing the talking for the two of them, always the one to make use of that info and make the tricks work. Quote: In my story, I had the Hanged Man try and give up material pleasures before it destroys him, which directly ties in with Pentacles and its concern with the physical and material wealth. But there's the problem. He gives up the coins. Pentacles is all about holding onto the physical, not giving it up. Working the land. Also, those coins are really runes. It relates back to the story of Odin who hung from the world tree. Runes fell from his pocket and he saw all secrets in them. The Hanged man is water because he hangs, womblike, having visions, sacrificing himself as cups/water folk do to heal and change the world. Quote: The Hermit, before I did any research on the card, seemed the most obvious connection with Swords. Obvious? I wonder...are you a big fan of the Star Wars movies? No joke. The reason I ask is because that's one of the few ways I see an obvious connection between swords and the Hermit here. In Star Wars, every Hermit is a master with the Sword...rather than a solitary old man who just wants to read his books and go on walks at night looking for weird specimens. Think of it this way, excepting old Samauris (who are usually driven into hiding), Hermits don't go into the woods to find out what they can't find out elsewhere, they go there because, in those immortal words, "They want to be alone!" They are sick and tired of the world, of all those FOOLS out there that don't understand them and just get in their way! Alone they can study what they want to study without being bothered or stared at or hindered. And that Hermit isn't wandering in search of someone to share his knowledge with, he's wandering about a night because that's when the roads are empty and he won't run into anyone and have to talk to them or answer their questions. A Hermit, after all, is a Hermit. Further, Hermits don't share their knowledge with Kings and Queens. They share their wisdom with young princes (often who don't know they're princes) who come looking for them--and usually have to badger them into sharing. That prince might be prince of Swords, Wands, Cups or Pentacles--not just swords (why, you might ask, must the Hermit give his advice ONLY to the King/Queen Swords? His knowledge surely ranges across the elements!). Finally, the way Hermits hide in hollow trees, studying the details of the world, gathering information is very Virgo-like, which is why the Hermit is usually associated with that sign. Understand, by the way, I'm just giving you classic Tarot here. Rider-Waite associations. There are other decks with other associations. AND If you don't like these associations, you don't have to go with them! As this is a book, whatever inspires you inspires you. If the cards become characters that speak to you, the old Hermit a secret Samuri Swordsman advising the King and Queen of Swords...well, then, that's the story, right? But I'm assuming you asked these questions because you want to know WHY certain cards have certain associations. The answer is because they're not characters in a book, rather they're certain archtypes based on magical and often astrological systems--different ones for different decks. The most common are the Rider-Waite associations, and those put the Hanged Man as Neptune (water), the Hermit as Virgo (earth), the Magician as Mercury (air), the High Priestess as The Moon (water). Hope this helps.

Fulgour	09 Jul 2004
Having a table in a spare room that you can lay out an entire deck on is a great way to interact with the images as a whole. There are so many different ways to see them, and this way you can allow your imagination to go beyond the textbook ideas.

Shy Priestess	09 Jul 2004
High Priestess and Magician? Not in my experience! I had a Tarot reading just before I left my previous job. The Magician was all over the place... wreaking havoc and blocking me at every turn. I was the HP at the time, keeping things to myself until I decided what I was going to do next. The Magician was my boss and he drove me MAD. He always had to know "everything" and needed to have a finger in every pie, meddling. That said he was intelligent... (and a show off). Incidentally, he was also a juggler in his spare time - and I believe this was the original name for the card Magician. To put it bluntly - he rubbed me up the wrong way! I just couldn't help but be reminded of this when you raised the question! SP :)

cartarum	09 Jul 2004
the magician is not only capable of doing whatever he wants, hes allowed to. he has attained the knowledge to act, beleiving himself as god. the preistess, is a preistess. she respects the gods and does not tamper with the coils of fate. if i would say, they would be bitter enemies, since her secrets are only open to those who could not abuse them, and contain too much emphasis on religion. that said, i would think that the magician is an atheist. since theoretically, a magician in a reading is a man or woman who manipulates circumstances to their advantage. no indication is given about ethics, just a slight indication that what is being done could be self-destructive. ~A~

Jewel-ry	09 Jul 2004
I personally quite like Gareth Knights associations Justice - swords Temperance - cups Strength - wands World - coins Justice - I can relate to the SWORD and truth, clarity, integrity and protection. Temperance - I can relate to water and therefore CUPS through her moderation, balance, calmness. Strength - I can relate to power, confidence, will and WANDS World - I can easily relate to wholeness and material success and COINS I havn't got the book with me now but he also then puts other members of the Major Arcana into 'halls' within each of the above trumps. I really liked his associations at the time (although I can't remember them all now!). :)

Chibi pic pic	12 Jul 2004
Hmm...looks like I'm back to the drawing board. The bad thing about writing something that you know little about is that once you do the research, you find out how off you were. But thanks for the clarification, Thirteen (even though I felt really stupid, though if one has never felt stupid then one has done everything right the first time, right)? So I guess I need to do more research. Until then, I think I'll stick to the minor arcana (I seem to be able to understand those cards much more easier than the major arcana) and work on the major arcana as I come to it. Of course, this means that I can't attempt to do any readings anytime soon (not that I could do it correctly before) but that's fine. Thanks for your help everybody! Chibi pic pic

Le_Corsair	12 Jul 2004
Thirteen: I loved your discussion of the Hermit! Bob :THERM

Thirteen	12 Jul 2004
I'm going to break this up into two posts as I think two different things are being confused here. One is writing a story based on Tarot, one is reading the tarot: Quote: Originally posted by Chibi pic pic Of course, this means that I can't attempt to do any readings anytime soon Yes and no. There are many methods of learning the cards. One way is to just study them and let your imagination soar, apply to them whatever meanings you intuitively feel are correct, whatever you see as the meaning of the card. No one can tell you that what you see in the card is the wrong meaning. Some people swear by this method, learn and read by this method alone. The other method is to pick up some common keywords for each card (like: Empress = Creativity), start to associate them to the cards. Once you get good at that, practice small spreads (3/card past, present, future). You learn how a card's position in a spread can indicate how to interpet it. Meanwhile, you delve into the deeper meanings of the cards (like: Empress = the mothering instinct). Read discussions here on AT about, say, the Empress and all she might mean. What I provided you with, astologically, was only the most *common* meaning/planetary association. But there are many more. As you research, you take what you like, toss out what you don't. Most of us here use a mixture of these two methods to read. We use what we've learned via research and each other as a signal, a keyword for each card. However, we ultimately rely on intuition and imagination to fill out the story and make the connection between the cards in a reading. We have to use imagination and intuition in order to help us apply what we're seeing in general to a particular person. Remember this: the one thing any tarot reader here will tell you is that we never stop learning, never stop seeing new meanings, new associations in the cards. However much we know, by way of reasearch or experiences with the cards or intuitive feelings--we never know everything. There's always more to learn. And there are always new stories the cards can tell. Don't be discouraged by having to do research--be enthused, interested and excited.

Thirteen	12 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Chibi pic pic Hmm...looks like I'm back to the drawing board. If you mean you're back to the drawing board on writing a fictional story about tarot based characters--yes and no. You don't quite explain what you're up to here. IF you're trying to write a book that absolutely follows the cards...say, each character steps right out of a classic tarot deck (so our Hermit is the RW Hermit, stepping out of his card and walking the streets), then, yes, you're back to the drawing board. IF, however, you're using the deck as inspiration for a character, or saying that, "This is their card"--but not them, then you're fine. Remember, these are archtypes. What that means is they're generic characters. They come with standard items and a bar code. So you pick The Hermit. He comes standard with grey robes, a lantern and a tendency to shout, "Leave me alone!" when people knock on his door. Generic, yes? And there's no way you can copyrite him. A dozen writers can use this character and not one of them could claim "Plagerism!" He's public content. Like wicked step-mothers in a fairytale. Anyone can use them. And they're all pretty much the same, pretty much interchangable. BUT you can modify your generic Hermit to you're hearts content--in a book or in a tarot reading. Like adding feature to your new car. They all come with power brakes, but you can ask for a sun roof and a killer sound system. You can make this Hermit yours. So, let's put a floppy, pointed hat on him. Let's give him a sword and white horse. Let's give him a talent for fireworks and a secret softspot for underdogs...like little people who live in holes in the ground....Whadda ya know? Our generic Hermit is now Gandalf. And if you copy him, everyone's going to point at that character and say, "You plagerized Gandalf!" We can do other things to generic Hermit. Cut him down in size, add in big ears, eyes, a swamp, a light saber and a weird speech pattern...now he's Yoda. This is what is done in story telling. It's also what's done in tarot readings. When I get the Hermit in a reading, I don't say: "You're going to meet a crazy old Hermit." I say, "You've been having private sessions with a very knowledgable teacher"--or I may say, "You feel like spending time alone right now, doing your own thing" or "now's a time of research, not action." What I'm saying is that depending on what you're doing, you may not be back to the drawing board at all. In SOME story, in SOME reading, your interpetation of the Hermit as advisor to the King/Queen of Swords was spot on. But you're going to have to modify the generic model a bit to get there. Does this help?

The Lots of random questions! thread was originally posted on 09 Jul 2004 in the Using Tarot Cards board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Using Tarot Cards, or read more archived threads.